Invading Pakistan? The Worst Idea Yet

Discussion in 'Pakistan's War Against TTP' started by t-birds, Dec 23, 2010.

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  1. IND_PAK
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    IND_PAK SENIOR MEMBER

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    I wont mind loosing some pride on a forum by speaking truth but certainly mind losing pride in real time situations unlike you.
    Best of luck internet warrier, you just nuked the US with your sleeper cells. What a pride adder you are to your nation.:cheers:
  2. LeGenD
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    LeGenD FULL MEMBER

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    What do you think we can do? We will fight (defend our nation) but every sane person knows the result.

    Also, our economy is in very bad shape. How long do you think our military will last? A week at most? This is what most intelligence officers told me.

    On the contrary; US can afford to spend over 500 billion dollars on annual basis to fund its military force.

    You are going off-topic here. America is a huge nation and understandably such big nations have complex history of affairs.

    Also, every nation has its bad days. US is in its 2nd recession, so situation will not look so gloomy over there.

    Point 1:

    Problem in every society. Not a breaking news.

    Point 2:

    Smuggling did not caused US economic recession. Useless point.

    Point 3:

    Actually US economic recovery methods may devalue dollar for a while but it will recover later on, as per US recovery officials. (Hint: Quantitative Easing Programs)

    Want proof?

    Fed Seeks U.S. Dollar Devaluation to Reflate the Economy

    Global Financial Strategy - Yellen defends US asset buying programme

    On the contrary, even China does not wants US dollar to devalue.

    Here;

    China UPSET with US Dollar Devaluation Congressman Burton | Finance News

    Seriously, you want US dollar to collapse? Imagine its impact.

    In addition, US is a big industrial power; Hence, so much consumption of fossil fuel.

    Even China's fossil fuel consumption is surging due to rapid expansion of its industry;

    Global Fossil Fuel Consumption Surges

    China's projected fossil fuel use 'shocking' - Washington Times

    Point 4:

    I am not surprised. Companies are trying to cut down their expenses in turbulent times. This is natural response. Once, the recovery process will pick pace, new jobs will be created.

    Point 5:

    And this is not happening in Pakistan?

    Point 6:

    Lack of sync or a sign of disciplinary measure? A US general gave objectionable remarks about an institution he serves and that led to his ouster. In other words, the government tried to correct this 'lack of sync' that you speak off.

    Show me an example like this from Pakistan. The lack of discipline is plaguing our nation since its inception.

    Remember Quaid's 3 point advice: Unity | Faith | Discipline

    Check of discipline in America: ACCOMPLISHED TASK

    Point 7:

    Really? What is NATO doing in Afghanistan than? Playing poker?

    Judge things from what you see and not just from what you hear.

    And NATO is a result of unity among European nations. It was formed to prevent potential wars among them and to counter external threats to them.

    Their is always strength in UNITY. Something the Islamic nations need to understand.

    Remember Quaid's 3 point advice: Unity | Faith | Discipline

    Check of unity in America and Europe: ACCOMPLISHED TASK

    Point 8:

    Again! Recovery from natural disasters takes time.

    New Orleans five years later

    Do you think that Pakistan has fully recovered from impact of Earthquakes and Floods? It has not.

    Point 9:

    Yeah right! It is not happening. Get out from your doomsday clock machine. Hardworking people in USA are doing their best to overcome all issues. Give them props for their efforts.

    Point 10:

    Much to the dismay of European Union:

    Index of US economic health picks up | Reuters

    Asian Stocks Rise on U.S. Economic Recovery; Honda Advances - Businessweek

    Gold falls as improved US economic outlook curbs demand - Hindustan Times

    FOREX-Dollar up broadly as economic data fuels bullish bets | Reuters

    Forex - Dollar extends gains vs. rivals on U.S. recovery optimism By ForexPros.com

    What do these reports tell you?

    BREAKING NEWS for doomsday fans: US economy is now showing signs of recovery

    While others plan; Americans also plan.

    And recession is not limited to US. Many other nations have been hit by it (including Pakistan).

    Do you know that why Chinese goods are cheap? Because of artificially undervalued Yuan. However, US is planning to impose penalties on countries that manipulate their currencies and China is in the list.

    Mark my words: Yuan will not remain devalued for long and Chinese goods will not stay cheap for long either.

    As I stated above:

    While others plan; Americans also plan.

    Point 11:

    Yes! This is an issue.

    Once the economic recession is over; focus will automatically shift towards debt.

    Here is hint:

    IMF Survey: U.S. Economy Recovering, Debt And Unemployment Next Challenges

    Point 12:

    The cost of wars are high indeed.

    However, situation has changed in spending in Iraq:

    [​IMG]

    GOOD NEWS: Iraqi occupation is going to end soon.

    Balance is being maintained.

    Point 13:

    HINT: Value of Gold and secrecy in US about it.

    Official statistics here: US Gold - About Gold: World Gold Holdings

    US has the largest GOLD reserves in the world.

    Point 14:

    UN - You've got to be kidding me?

    America has VETO power in UN. And European Union is opposed to this suggestion.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
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  3. jahangeer yousaf
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    jahangeer yousaf FULL MEMBER

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    Afghanistan is dead end to Americans they cannt go further than this ..
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  4. GOD OF WAR
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    Well that was just meant to be a hypothetical simplistic analogy especially aimed at u, keeping in mind ur low IQ levels but if u want to beleive thats wats exactly going to happen, be my guest :chilli:

    if it were only Your pride on the line, it would be okay, but wat i said was that your NATIONAL PRIDE ison the line wen u blurt out such statements, but i guess ur ego isnt letting u think beyong urself. :oops:

    Anyways, coming from a half breed like u, i'll take it as a compliment, drink to that:cheers: :rofl:
  5. GOD OF WAR
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    GOD OF WAR FULL MEMBER

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    so?? are u saying that the UN can say anything that go against the US?? Facts are facts bro, wethr someone likes it or not, google and ye shall find

    Legend, ur concrns about Pakistan ar genuine, thats great bro, but the crux of the matter remains the same. PAKISTAN WILL NOT COW DOWN IN THE FACE OF US AGGRESSION!!

    Pakistan Zindabad, Afwaaj e Pakistan PAINDABAAD!!!
  6. GOD OF WAR
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    i just remembered Holbroks last word before hekicked the bucket....

    STOP THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN

    :hang2::rofl::hang2::rofl::hang2::rofl::rofl::rofl:
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  7. LeGenD
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    LeGenD FULL MEMBER

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    You are twisting my points.

    Question is can Pakistan protect its interests against the might of the USA and survive?

    Answer is NO. We do not have resources and nor the economy.

    Assymetric wafare? What a joke.

    Can you explain to me that how the remnants of Pakistani forces (if they survive the SHOCK and AWE offensive) will conduct assymetric warfare in USA?

    9/11 event was a demonstration of assymetric warfare from Al-Qaeda group against USA and afterwards, the latter group found itself on the recieving end.

    Since the WOT commenced; the Al-Qaeda network has been disrupted; OBL is on the run; large number of its fighters have been killed; and suppression of this group continues.

    What you need to realize is that as long as we cannot harm the continental US; we will be on the receiving end of the conflict.

    Regarding Pakistan in 1965:

    Here is the bigger picture: After three weeks of warfare both countries agreed to a UN-sponsored ceasefire.

    This is irrelevant example; Pakistani forces will be overwhelmed by the technologically superior forces of the USA within a matter of days.

    Heck, Americans do not even need to send boots to Pakistan to destroy our nation. HINT: Long range weapons

    Regarding Vietnam:

    Another dumb example corresponding to completely different circumstances. Here;

    Also, Vietnam conflict caused a revolution in American approach to conduct warfare. And the performance of American war machine stunned the entire world in the America's next big conflict; the infamous Persian Gulf War: The 4th largest military in the world (based upon Russian doctrines) was decimated within a span of just 45 days.

    Regarding Afghanistan:

    How many US major military bases have been overrun by Taliban? Have Taliban captured Kabul? The Bagram Airbase; the staging point of all NATO military operations in Afghanistan is still intact.

    This war is not yet over. We should reserve our judgements till 2014.

    Also, you overlooked this;

    Pakistan army and American army; both sides have made significant gains against Taliban within their theatre of operations.

    Because economy matters. Do you think that our economy can sustain a prolonged conflict with the most powerful nation on Earth? Wake up!

    Here;

    [​IMG]

    Do the math. A year is more than enough time to decimate an entire nation.

    Have you forgotten these words;

    "The intelligence director told me that Mr Armitage said, 'Be prepared to be bombed. Be prepared to go back to the Stone Age'," he said. (revealed by Musharraf)

    This is your WET DREAM. I am not surpised.

    We have underestimated our enemies before and FACTS speak for themselves today.

    US will not attack Pakistan until its hands are free from more pressing matters; Iraq and Afghanistan. However, it has the option to use its strategic weapons at any given time.

    US is on withdrawal phase from Iraq already. RESULT: War expenditure is decreasing. This move gave US the flexibility to prolong the conflict in Afghanistan till 2014.

    Also, hypothetical US offensive against Pakistan can be a lot different than what we saw in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Even if we compare wars of Iraq and Afghanistan; Both of these wars were fought in a different manner and resources were also allocated differently for both.

    In Iraq; US employed blitzkrieg strategy with overwhelming firepower.

    In Afghanistan; US used combination of airpower and special forces to rout out Taliban from most important parts of the country. This paved way for the Northern Alliance forces to hold ground in regions around Afghanistan.

    Americans first study the capabilities of their enemy and then plan their moves accordingly. They are highly experienced in the art of warfare and they do have big victories under their belt.

    I believe I have stated this before;

    "Also, every nation has its bad days. US is in its 2nd recession, so situation will not look so gloomy over there."

    And recession can have a demoralizing effect on people. And this is not the first time for the Americans. In addition, since 9/11; American muslims have been facing hardships as consequences.

    More points addressed below.
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
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  8. IND_PAK
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    IND_PAK SENIOR MEMBER

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    Ohhhhh my national pride gone for a toss :hitwall:
    just because some god of war says so:rofl::rofl:
  9. LeGenD
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    Drug consumption is an old phenomenon in USA.

    Did this stopped America from making progress?

    Did America stopped functioning as a society?

    Really? What do you think about Mexican drug war? As per your logic, Mexico should have been a failed state by now.

    You know better than FED about impact of its economic recovery measures on US dollar?

    Yes! Their are critics of actions of FED but the criticism is based upon the fact that Quantitative Easing approach may devalue US dollar and several countries will suffer due to this. First try to understand what Quantitative Easing is and then respond.

    America is not suffering from energy crises. Also, what does this have to do with rapid increase in consumption of fossil fuel in China?

    Your original point was that US is highly dependent upon fossil fuel. Do not worry! China is catching up first.

    Want to see the big picture? Here;

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Source: In 2009, U.S. Led the World in Increases of Oil and Natural Gas Production; China Recorded the Greatest Increase in Energy Consumption and Emissions | Institute for Energy Research

    So you think that China is not vulnerable to such high dependency upon fossil fuel?

    Typical 'China is invincible' mentality? (No offense to my Chinese friends here; I am just being nuetral for this discussion)

    Please try to convince me that how China would be less vulnerable than USA in case of massive dependency upon fossil fuel.

    Any company in the world (if going through turbulent times) would do what American companies did. Even in Pakistan, companies are engaging in cost cutting measures.

    And the phenomenon of strikes and protests is not new for USA. Unlike in our case, people of the United States can make their feelings felt through their actions; The recent set back of the democrats in the mid term elections is an example of this.

    In Pakistan, our majority continues to re-elect corrupt elements who continue to loot and plunder. A portion of the population resents this but does nothing to change the situation. How long will we last in this manner?

    Your posts indicate that you are not well versed in history of USA.

    You have no clue then. I will not go in to details here.

    You will not understand. People over here have become accustomed to concept of one man show.

    Military generals should never be in the position to belittle their superiors. The defence secretaries are their for a reason. Ever heard about boss is always right philosophy?

    Read this;

    President Barack Obama sacked his loose-lipped Afghanistan commander Wednesday, a seismic shift for the U.S. military order in wartime, and chose the familiar, admired — and tightly disciplined — Gen. David Petraeus to replace him. Petraeus, architect of the Iraq war turnaround, was once again to take hands-on leadership of a troubled war effort.

    Their are always alternatives. Unrest within the echelons of power is never a good thing.

    What has Pakistan gained from repeated military coups? Did our COAS proved to be better than our politicians?

    Only Ayub was good in my eyes. The others were a big disappointment. Their actions had far reaching consequences for this nation.

    You are suffering from MEDIA SYNDROME.

    NATO will stay in Afghanistan until 2014. You want to learn about details of NATO mission in Afghanistan, check their official website.

    However, withdrawal process is gradual; depending upon progress in development of ANA.

    No! I am on Earth and trying to understand the bigger picture. Every one acknowledges that Afghanistan is in mess. However, it has been mess since USSR invasion. You cannot transform a war torn and bankrupt nation in to a functioning democracy in overnight. This process will take lot of time and effort. I hope that Afghanistan become stable in the coming future and be able to stand up on its feet.

    I covered this part;

    And NATO is a result of unity among European nations. It was formed to prevent potential wars among them and to counter external threats to them.

    I believe that I am not communicating in pashto here but I will try in language of pathan;

    Khochi; NATO bani thee Europe ki khiwazat ke leyee. :D

    Iqbal was a visionary in my eyes. He accurately predicted the plight of muslims in modern times.

    I am smelling conspiracy talk here.

    Thankfully, hardworking people around the world do not have this mentality.

    Remember; Day comes after Night.

    Economic cycle basics:

    [​IMG]

    Recession is a fundamental part of economic cycle. Look at its positive aspects; It weeds out the weak and paves way for reforms.

    And yet this talk is about USA vs Pakistan?

    Obama gave them hope. He is more liberal than Bush.

    If people start loosing hope, then they will never make progress. People in America are fighting this recession. We need to do the same in our country.

    3 points of Quaid: UNITY | FAITH | DISCIPLINE

    These are latest articles on US economic conditions. Check their dates.

    Stop underestimaing other societies, be they enemies or not.

    Economic recovery process is a slow affair.

    Did other nations faced 9/11 like events? Still lots of nations have joined WOT (including Pakistan) :pop:

    It is in our interest to address the issue of terrorism.

    Again! 'China is invincible' mentality? :hitwall:

    America can impose penalities on nations, which are its trading partners. In case of China; argument is that Chinese enjoys unfair advantage in its trading activities due to its policies.

    REALITY CHECK: America is the largest trading partner of China.

    Anyways! This Pakistani article nicely summed the bigger picture of the events:

    Currency war and global economy | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online

    Situation may change under fair trading rules.

    Read this: information.

    Even China cannot sustain American pressure for long or afford its enemity.

    Read these articles:

    Treasurys resume gains after Fed buyback Bond Report - MarketWatch

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/11/business/economy/11fed.html?_r=1&ref=quantitativeeasing

    US is already making plans to deal with its debt.

    I am not surprised, since US withdrawal from Iraq is taking place. Only 47000 coalition troops are left over there by now.

    Their is a concern among Sunni circles in Iraq now that Sadr can restart sunni-shia conflict. This is bad news for Iraq actually. Sadr needs to act sensibly if he really wants to do something positive for his nation. Because in his previous attempts; he got some cities ruined and thousands of people killed.

    Americans maintain high level of secrecy in this regard. So we can only speculate in this case.

    No! I am saying that UN made a suggestion; which has been rejected by European Union. That is a lot of countries.

    Pakistan already has. WOT was not our war. We were forced in to it via threats.

    Indeed! And to live up to the terms of 'zindabaad' and 'paindabaad', we need to drop suicidal tendencies and do something positive. Thank you.

    God! I sound like US-Pakistan relations spokesman in this thread. :blink:
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
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  10. GOD OF WAR
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    hey, thank God u have a PANDA as ur avatar, since its a Chinese animal, Im letting u off, other wise u would have suffered my wrath :D :sniper:

    thank the Chinese :china: :lol::rofl:

    Thats all u can bring to this arguement? some 5th grade standard jokes! come on man, grow up, or at least try to act as an adult :chilli:
  11. bichuraM
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    Pakistan is already invade by Americans but we will strike back
  12. GOD OF WAR
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    Fine Presentation Skills, im sure u got an A in most of ur MBA courses :partay:

    Legend, Im not going to debate further, because this wont go anywhere. Its just going to dwindle into space without any conclusive evidence.

    You are rite, Im not going to buy what u are saying :lol: not not because of the fact that im acting stuburn as u said, its merely becasue i seriously think ur points in suport of the US dont make sense in my opinion.

    I'd rather die fighting honourably than surrender, it has nothing to do with being realistic or having suicidal tendencies. By ur logic, the likes of Sultan Tipu Shaheed were also silly because they didn't bow down to a super power. What do u have to say about David and Goliath? Its very easy to rebut the case of Vietnam, Afghanistan etc but each and every country has its own set of gepgraphical edge, that a foreign invader finds very difficult. Assymetric warefare dosent nesseceraily mean that i have to go to Chicago to fight US imperialists.

    I respect ur thoughts, indeed Pakistan is weak in a lot of fronts and needs to improve, but it certainly doesn't amount to being subjugated and scared to meet a mighty adversery. I don't doubt ur love and integrity for Pakistan one bit, but as i said, don't loose heart bro.

    :pakistan:
  13. Moorkh
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    the US is almost surely not going to "invade" pakistan. what would the endgame be for such a scenario? replace the government with some puppet? but then the militants in question are not govt controlled in the first place. the US will have to then dedicate forces to secure this new puppet AND afganistan without the pakistani Army to help it. it simply is a no win scenario for the US and therefore this fictitious invasion will never take place.

    just in case the invasion does take place, the nukes will be pretty useless. where will they be used? on the supply lines that lie entirely in pakistan? or on afganistan which mostly contains afgans and not americans? and a nuclear response from US will surelyreduce their headaches in the endgame with so many fewer people to people angry with them. So please stop claiming that the invasion will not take place because pakistan is a nuclear state. the invasion wont take place because the US has nothing to gain from it.

    what the US will most probably do is send small 15-20 man teams into pakistan to hunt specific targets, all with a nod from rawalpindi. anything more will be politically unviable for the pakistani govt. and an angry GOP causes more problems for US than it is willing to face
  14. GOD OF WAR
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    Just found this, and saw relevance. listen to the last minute carefully ...........

    :pakistan:
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  15. LeGenD
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    Brother, you are patriotic. This I can see within you.

    However, you do not have proper grasp of ground realities of this world.

    Stop thinking that we can take upon the entire world. We cannot.

    I have even heard this hoax from a few fellow Pakistani: "Hitler said that if he had command of Pakistan's army. he would have conquered the entire world." Yeah right! :rolleyes:

    Stop believing in hoaxes and wake up. Pakistan is currently perceived as a weak nation. Yes! This is hard truth.

    Want to know the reasons? Watch the program cited in this thread. It may open your eyes.

    USA is a superpower (regardless of present crises and this is not the first time for that nation) and we cannot afford its enemity. This is why we have no choice but to continue to serve its agenda regardless of our likings or dislikings. Do not confuse the situation of USA with that of India. Even India is stronger than us.

    Their is a limit to impact of patriotism in the hour of need. We need to make our nation strong. Only then, we would be able to protect our interests.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011