You only trust US media and thinks US is the only power of this world....
My grasp of 'ground realities' is through my own homework. My perceptions were not shaped by US media. I seldom watch US news channels.
The main issue of Pakistani public is
self assurance. We try to keep a simplistic view of things around us. We seldom try to understand the complexities involved in the background of the things. We seldom try to set a benchmark for our tasks. This makes us
complacent. This is why our nation finds itself in such a sorry state today.
Do you deny that US is a
hyperpower? You are fooling yourself only.
Here is an interesting example:
Consider Pakistani film industry. Their was a time when it was regarded as one of the best in Asia. However, you can clearly see that how much its has decayed by now. Why?
- No benchmarks were set.
- Talent was not properly utilized.
- Any proposed idea (no matter how poor it was) was praised with wah wah chanting.
- Insufficient resources?
And yet guys like Syed Noor are highly appreciated despite less creativity and a huge list of flops under their belt. (Please note that I am not bashing Syed Noor. I do respect him at personal capacity.)
However, at world stage; he is poorly known. He is no match against the likes of Steven Speilberg and James Cameron.
Being a research student, I can tell you that their is little creativity in Pakistan. Lot of stuff we use is either imported from China or USA. We seldom create our own things. Even our famous sports industry is in decline.
Trust me! Their are geniuses in Pakistan. However, their talents are not being properly utilized.
Contrary to this; Their is lot of research being done in USA (ranging from educational to industrial level). Its industrial sector is solid (90% efficient) and has good reputation. USA produces lots of products in comparison to Pakistan.
whereas weak nations can still take on big army powers...history tell us this....
This is a misconception. A typical black and white assumption.
Let us consider human anatomy over here;
Two men are pitted against each other in a real contest. One is 300 pounder and highly experienced. The other one is 150 pounder and less experienced. Who would you place your bet upon?
Similarly, I can quote some modern examples of conflicts that are easily overlooked.
Consider WWII for a moment:
Germary vs Poland (a classic example of a contest between a technological superior military force vs a paper tiger)
Even if we look at the case of France; It was a strong nation. However, Germans defeated french forces with ease. Here technological gap was not wide but superior tactics changed the situation on the ground.
UK was spared humiliation by its territory. While an advantage but this luxury is not available to all.
However, technological advancements have even started to negate the impact of territorial advantages. Today, if you are hiding even in bunkers and caves; you are not safe. And technological advancements come with investment and R&D. The key point is 'resources' and their utilization.
Now let us consider of Pakistan;
During 1947 and 1965; technological gap between Pakistan and India was not big. We had disadvantage of quantity but we employed superior tactics to hold ground.
However, India learned its lesson (from not just Pakistan but also China) and made a come back. And we know the rest.
Our conflict with India got us split in to two. We have compensated our weaknesses with nuclear weapons (thanks to our scientists). However, for how long? We still need to make progress and strengthen ourselves with passage of time to survive.
Now consider the case of USA; It has vast experience of warfare under its belt and most importantly it is geographically beyond our retaliation capacity. It has the best equipped military force in the world and it has the financial strength to fight wars in multiple theatres simultaneously at any given time.
This is something that even USSR could not do. And USSR was vastly hyped up. We all witnessed the utter failure of USSR military doctrines from 1979 - 1991. USA learned from its mistakes in Vietnam, addressed its weaknesses, and became the most powerful nation in the world.
Even if we consider Russia now; It has learned from its past failures (as USSR) and is destined to become a superpower once again in the future.
Question now remains about capabilities of Pakistan. What have we learned from our history till now? Do we have the resources and economy to meet the greatest challenges of modern world?
No we do not.
At present, we do not have sufficient funds to carry out WOT even in our own territory.
Why do you think that Pakistan army has so far refused to launch a military operation in North Waziristan?
Official story is that we are trying to consolidate our previous gains.
However, unofficial story is that we are financially constrained and lack sufficient gear for such an operation (e.g. shortage of helicopters).
Contrary to this; every single branch of US military is being modernized with passage of time and resources are ample for its missions.
In addition, WOT and natural disasters have taken a serious toll on millions of people in Pakistan, who are displaced and in miserable state. The 'city chaps' have no clue about their miseries.
And 'arm chair warriors' like you are telling me that despite of millions displaced, and lack of sufficient resources at out disposal, we can fight the most powerful nation in the world? How about we put a man on the moon as well?
Wake up and smell the coffee.
USA, on daily basis, is killing people in Pakistan. Why are we silent? This is blatant violation of our sovereignty and we cant do jack **** about this. Because this adversary is too powerful for us. On the contrary, if India tries something like this; it cannot get away without consequences. Just imagine the gap between 'threat perception' of USA and India for Pakistani authorities.
I am not trying to demoralize any one here. However, we cannot swallow something more than we can chew. We are not above laws of nature. We are human beings too and we are struggling to survive the challenges of 21st century. These are the ground realities of Pakistan today. The sooner more people in Pakistan realize this; the better for our nation.
everything goes around money my friend we need to see how long general public stay like this with foolish leaders on top
Our leadership is reflection of our society in its present form. It has been voted in to power by common man in Pakistan. Who is at fault here?
OR how long Pakistan keep getting afraid of US
As long as;
1. We achieve internal stability
2. We have a solid industry base to produce all tools we need.
3. We have a strong economy
4. We achieve high literacy rate and have flourishing R&D
5. We follow Islamic teachings properly
The combination of these factors can make us a world power. Until we achieve this benchmark, we have no hope.
We need to a learn a lesson or two from China.
China is currently so strong that it can send any 'potential adversary' to retreat without firing even a single bullet.
OR how long we will safe us from this war they will keep on doing thier dirty work against us
As long as we cooperate with them.
You know what scares me?
Iraq was once recognized as a 'rising power' of the Islamic world that could challenge the likes of Israel. And captialistic forces destroyed that nation. Thanks to leaders like Saddam.
Now Pakistan is being threatened of dire consequences by the same capitalistic forces. In these times, we do not need 'hot headed' leaders like Saddam. We need a visionary leadership.
OR Pakistan(Musharaf) took u-turn on US threats and still after 9 years threats are there hmmm it means after all this 9 years of helping them means nothing ? so it means we have taken the wrong steps 9 years back and now at some stage need to correct things..... at some stage need to say no........ somewhere ...somehow.....need to say no........
Musharraf was
COAS back then. He had much better grasp of ground realities than common citizens of Pakistan. 9/11 proved to be unfavorable for PAKISTAN. And poor beautiful country was
threatened to be bombed back to stone age. Can you imagine the shock of Pakistani leadership? On top of this we had a hostile India to contend with as well. Musharraf had to decide about the faith of 160 million people within
24 hours. Their was no nuetral option. The decision flexibility given to him was limited to WITH US or AGAINST US options. And you dare question his decision? What would have you done in his position?
Musharraf never claimed that Pakistan will not face any difficulties even after his good decision. He stated that he would steer Pakistan through less treacherous path.
To achieve the option of saying NO 'at some stage' would require lot of effort from us. It will not happen with talk and false self-assurances.
Just watch any Pakistan news channel for a day; you would get depressed.
Can we change this situation and make progress?
YES WE CAN, if we adopt constructive posture instead of a destructive one.
my friend its not quickly it took 9 years to learn this..... sooner or later you will learn to respect yourself b4 asking others to respect you......
And I am suspecting that we have learned nothing yet. 9 more years wasted.
Please watch a program titled
Pakistan - Running out of Bargaining Chips. It highlights some important lessons for us.
sooner to later you will start to think about having a change
YES! But not on the basis of false assurances and tough talk.
sooner or later you will also understand we did something really bad 30 years ago and again 9 years ago and now someday we need to pay the price...... the best way is to pay the price by taking corrective steps easy way or the hard way..... choice is open
Again! We would loose a lot more with our 'hard ways' for dealing with challenges we face.
Saddam also tried to handle his challenges with 'hard ways' and he got a 'hard response' in return. Do we need to repeat this failed strategy as well? We need to stop underestimating the potential threats that we currently face. These threats contain a message for us;
We need to change our perceptions now or we will be doomed. And Earth is filled with destroyed remains of those nations or empires, which did not learned a lesson from mistakes they committed and remained stubborn.
This is a horrible thread and should be locked. The entire notion is ridiculous.
Perhaps for you. But not for those who were threatened to or were actually bombed back to stone age. Thank you.
This thread contains healthy discussion and should be kept open.
Sorry to say but Afghans cannot be relied upon in any way...As soon as Karzai came to power he is mud slinging on Pakistan ever since..
Karzai represents a puppet regime. If he continues this posture, he would not last long. He knows how vulnerable he is and he cannot afford our enmity.
Lets say if the Hypothetical invasion of USA on Pakistan does happen,they might win here but will lose everywhere else,and eventually in Pakistan too.Those saying USA has 500 billion defense budget are wrong they have a bigger budget,and they wont spent all tat money on Pakistan.
Again! Pakistan has lot more to loose than USA. And USA is already spending billions to fund its conflicts. It can do so as well in case of Pakistan.
Posting videos of US nuclear blasts is even more childish....and you know why?
That video is a grim reminder of how much situation can turn ugly in case of this hypothetical war.
