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Interview of Wen Jiabao

Bussard Ramjet

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This is a fascinating interview of Wen Jiabao by CNN.

Actually I totally agree with him:
1. China should move towards better election system, democratise the system so that state power truly belongs to the people.
2. China should establish rule of law.
3. Chinese Government should be subjected to more scrutiny by its people and there should be more transparency.

While Xi is moving forward on 2nd thing, he has done nothing and even going retrograde on 1st and 3rd things. It is harmful for the future of China.

 
A big corrupted worm that can't do anything useful,but always giving touching lectures in front of the public with a kind face,haha

Can't do anything useful?

Well, he handled one of the most formative years of China.

Except perhaps for corruption, he was the silent knight, along with Hu. Silent but there.
 
Can't do anything useful?

Well, he handled one of the most formative years of China.

Except perhaps for corruption, he was the silent knight, along with Hu. Silent but there.

Hu and Wen were weak leaders, I'm sure they have political ambitions as dreams,but the armies didn't follow their calls at all. When they were in position, the military head once said we should listen to Jiang sometimes....ironic isn't it? You know how the reform or the rule of law proceed right? The obstacles are unbelievably huge, they could exist in any field of our country, only strong leader like Xi could handle all of this, look at what he has done, destroying all the old shit, paving the road for Li Keqiang. Also remember Hu and Wen's keynote is to keep the superficial prosperity, but leave the dangerous trouble behind. It's true at that time economy grows fast, but it's at the cost of land fiscal policy, driving the housing prices and CPI to endless higher level. I still remember how cheap the living cost was before that.
 
A big corrupted worm that can't do anything useful,but always giving touching lectures in front of the public with a kind face,haha

Also, remember he was in the un-enviable position of building China while keeping their heads down. When he took power in 2002 China was a 2 trillion economy, while in 2012 it was a 8 trillion economy. China couldn't have done that with a Xi like active diplomacy.

In the end I will just say, that often it is the hard things that you do, without the desire for popularity or glory that matter. A leader, a great one, would do hard things, that may require even sacrifice to his glory and image. A short sighted selfish one would never let go his glory.

Xi has done only one thing until now, that is to reduce corruption, without avoiding the trap of reduced growth. One of the reasons India slowed down considerably from 8+ growth rates to 5-6% was because of massive corruption exposures by media, and opposition, which led to policy and initiative paralysis. No one was willing to take any major decision in fear of going down the line in the next purge. Same is the case with China now, Officials are delaying implementation of projects, and less willing to take risks. Not only this they are also less willing to work, because there are no incentives to work extra hard.

Xi is yet to prove a great leader. He received a strong China, he didn't make it. His actions seem like an Emperor. In some places he is unnecessarily being more active than he ought to be.

Hu and Wen were weak leaders, I'm sure they have political ambitions as dreams,but the armies didn't follow their calls at all. When they were in position, the military head once said we should listen to Jiang sometimes....ironic isn't it? You know how the reform or the rule of law proceed right? The obstacles are unbelievably huge, they could exist in any field of our country, only strong leader like Xi could handle all of this, look at what he has done, destroying all the old shit, paving the road for Li Keqiang. Also remember Hu and Wen's keynote is to keep the superficial prosperity, but leave the dangerous trouble behind. It's true at that time economy grows fast, but it's at the cost of land fiscal policy, driving the housing prices and CPI to endless higher level. I still remember how cheap the living cost was before that.

I realise everything, and I appreciate him for that. But again, don't yet insult Hu and Wen. They were patriots. They were not able to rein in corruption precisely because of the way system worked. It was long before Hu received leadership of Military from Jiang.

Not only this, high CPI, and some discrepancies are bound to exist when their is high growth. But, still their leadership was the envy of the world. Not only this, I personally believe that China should have stayed low for 10 more years, so that you don't invite scrutiny, and possible US containment.

Also, one of the biggest flaws of democracies is "populism." Where you do things in a polity which is at the expense of long term interests of the nation, but yet are done for getting short term political returns for a leader. China would do fine by avoiding this route.
 
I agree with the second. But China is basically a centralized country based on elites throughout the history. I'm wondering if a westernized administration will suit this land and continue bring about development.
 
Because they exhausted all the demographic dividend of China. During their charge, the corruption was rampant, their silence feed those guys like Zhou Youngkang. The land finance brought huge fiscal revenue but making people's living cost higher. At that time, the whole Chinese governments were selling lands as crazy as hell, the boom of real estate makes GDP looking better, everyone is investing in real estate, they didn't do the real business like factory or trade, people and organizations from the private to SOEs, all crazy falling in speculation. We all know the real forces behind GDP growth should be innovation, the upgrade of industries, because they can generate employment, to really elevate general welfare. Hu and Wen were to blame, they indulged this.

Xi has only done one thing - to reduce the corruption. True, because this is the only thing he could do at this time around. I thought I had explained this before, like I said, the demographic dividend is over, thanks to Hu and Wen, the local government debt can't be endured any longer, the red line is approaching. Many provinces are issuing new debts to repay the old debt. The old pattern of stimulation growth, like 4 trillion investment plan, isn't persistent any more, it could only make the debt burden heavier, plus the labor cost is higher, the output of traditional industry is too low. You know the effect of diminishing marginal benefit, any further investment in the old pattern couldn't yield the same benefit like before. For example, you raw material factories produced too much concrete and steels, but the cost of investment hasn't received the expected return, because government policy cools the real estate market down, so as an investor, would you go on? Of course not, so there is a gap, the chain is broken, so there is over capacity of production. So Xi suggested trans-Eurasian railway investment, and Asia development bank, to provide infrastructure investment to other countries, not only for them, but good for China, to export the over capacity production, to save Chinese business....It's too early to say Xi has only done one thing. China is still amid the mid stage of industrialization, innovation has less important contribution to the real economy growth. China is facing a serious and deep structural adjustment, with the cost of stagnant PMI and labor shortage. Time is different, so the method should adapt to the new changes. All I can see Xi is doing is to clean the mess of his predecessor. You still underestimated the corruption, it exists in any field of such authority system, it could affect any good policy's application, only a thorough clean could diminish the consequences.

I agree with the second. But China is basically a centralized country based on elites throughout the history. I'm wondering if a westernized administration will suit this land and continue bring about development.

True. China has been what it looks like now for centuries, the centralized elite governance. Can't say it's good or bad now. Rule 2 is the basis of Rule 1 and 3. As for rule 1, the general election from top down is unlikely to happen at least before the mid of this century. I think we could expect elections for county level government leaders in about 30 years from now.
 
This guy will probably get arrested soon along with his family.

I agree with the second. But China is basically a centralized country based on elites throughout the history. I'm wondering if a westernized administration will suit this land and continue bring about development.

Wen wanna make sure that his family will keep bagging the trillion that they stolen from the Chinese people for eternity.

That's why they are promoting the western 'democracy'.
 
I agree with the second. But China is basically a centralized country based on elites throughout the history. I'm wondering if a westernized administration will suit this land and continue bring about development.

Almost all places have been, but history is no excuse for future. Also, the changes that we are seeing are momentous and monumental today. Due to various reasons, the pace of change of human society has accelerated multiple folds, during the past decades.

There was very less change in societies between 100 and 200 AD, even in 1500 and 1600 AD, but today the world is totally different. Totally!

Also, at that time the whole state belonged to a particular tribe, or ruler, or elite. Today it is well accepted that it is not. People want their rights. Even the elites, who may still own the state in various measures to various extents, would accept that the state belongs to the people. You must have people's trust and faith in the state. Especially of the most talented ones.

I am telling you, the only revolution standing between China and to be the sole superpower is one of political revolution.

Also, don't believe the democratic extremists, like that in Hong Kong etc. Democracy can very well protect your national sovereignty. A democratic government is by its default more legitimate, because if it is not, it can be just voted out. There is a minimum threshold of acceptance that it must have.

One big thing that China lacks is soft power, the primary reason of it being that the chinese politicians don't know how to appeal to public, and create public opinions and narratives. In the battle of narratives, China always looses. This is a result of democratic training, (and also one of its biggest flaws) that you learn how to handle public opinions and narratives.
 
Xi Jinping has only been in office for a few years and he is already a hundred times better than Wen Jiabao.

Cracking down on corruption is exactly what we need right now. This is more than just economics.

Wen Jiabao's family has many graft problems, so they want to overthrow the current system to make sure that nobody can ever purge them for corruption.

Those western democracy frontrunners are usually some of the most corrupt people, they are using the ideology for their political gain.
 
One big thing that China lacks is soft power, the primary reason of it being that the chinese politicians don't know how to appeal to public, and create public opinions and narratives. In the battle of narratives, China always looses. This is a result of democratic training, (and also one of its biggest flaws) that you learn how to handle public opinions and narratives.

The narrative of the Chinese government wins within China itself, and that is only place where it really matters.

Soft power overseas is merely a bonus that developed countries have cultivated over hundreds of years.

Internal power is the most important type of power, without internal strength, external strength is useless.
 
I don't think any of the people saying Hu was weak were around for the Jiang era. In Jiang's time, China was at a realistic risk of collapsing or being militarily defeated, absolutely no joke. There was absolutely zero risk of China collapsing in the Hu era and absolutely zero risk of China being militarily defeated.
 
The narrative of the Chinese government wins within China itself, and that is only place where it really matters.

Soft power overseas is merely a bonus that developed countries have cultivated over hundreds of years.

Internal power is the most important type of power, without internal strength as the foundation, external strength is useless.

The western capitalist model now has stagnated HK's economic development as well, so now I think the socialism is the future for HK.

The capitalist has controlled HK for many decades, and they have done is to demonize the socialism and to brainwash the HK people.

Now over 80% of HKers have been exploited, do you think who has caused this? Capitalism or Socialism?

The capitalist is creating the umbrella revolution by shifting the blame on CPC.

Those HK students are just a group of poor living souls getting manipulated as the cannon fodder by those greedy tycoons.
 
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Because they exhausted all the demographic dividend of China. During their charge, the corruption was rampant, their silence feed those guys like Zhou Youngkang. The land finance brought huge fiscal revenue but making people's living cost higher. At that time, the whole Chinese governments were selling lands as crazy as hell, the boom of real estate makes GDP looking better, everyone is investing in real estate, they didn't do the real business like factory or trade, people and organizations from the private to SOEs, all crazy falling in speculation. We all know the real forces behind GDP growth should be innovation, the upgrade of industries, because they can generate employment, to really elevate general welfare. Hu and Wen were to blame, they indulged this.

check the growth in patent rates and scientific publications during the Hu era. It was those 10 years that China transformed from a relatively weak country like today's India into a scientific powerhouse. In the late 90's early 2000's, do you even realize how many people were ashamed for being Chinese? How Falun Gong started? It was no accident.

Corruption is one thing, science and industry are another. Just ask yourself: How big was the difference between 1992 and 2002? How big was the difference between 2002 and 2012? The answer is very clear. In both 1992 and 2002, Chinese people were still self hating (自卑)and inferiority complex was mainstream, in 2012, Chinese people with inferiority complex were looked down on.
 

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