India vs Pakistan - Evaluation on Military Strengths

Discussion in 'Pakistan Air Force' started by foxhound, Oct 14, 2007.

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  1. foxhound
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    foxhound FULL MEMBER

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    Salaam!

    Interesting article?:coffee:

    Ref:India vs Pakistan - Evaluation on Military Strengths | Aby The Liberal

    India vs Pakistan - Evaluation on Military Strengths
    Dmitri August 6th, 2007

    India and Pakistan have been at loggerheads on the Kashmir issue since their independence from Imperial Britain in 1947. After the independence and partition into two countries, Pakistan chose to be an Islamic republic and aligned with USA in the Cold War. India on the other hand, chose to remain politically neutral and chose a democratic government while keeping military ties with former-USSR. These choices turned out to the the turning points in the political and military future of both these countries and it decided the present state of Indian and Pakistani military strengths which we will evaluate below.

    It must be noted that what follows is not an evaluation of military power in combat situations, but of military strengths based on currently available manpower, equipments, infrastructure, command and strategy. Future military plans and projects are not discussed due to uncertain and volatile nature of such plans, often subject to cancellation, failure or modification.



    [YOUTUBE]

    A documentary video on the 1971 war between India and Pakistan which was the only military conflict between these two countries involving sea, ground, air and missile forces .



    Military Budgets and Economic Impact

    Pakistan’s defence budget for the year 2006-07 was $4.1 billion (~3% of GDP) in response to India’s hike in defence budget of 2006-07 at $20.11 billion (~ 2.5% of GDP). Pakistan’s hike in military budget would be partially funded from its government coffers and partially by borrowing while India would fund its military spending from its own funds. The growing tensions between both this countries and India’s ambitions have lead to such huge defence spendings despite their widespread poverty and socio-political problems. India gets away with such a high military budget owing to its democratic government and a fast growing trillion dollar economy which gives it greater purchasing power. Pakistan does not have it as easy as India in its military development particularly because of its mounting international debts and a series of military dictators creating political instability. In most of its wars Pakistan relies on US material and military support in contrast to India’s funding from its own resources.



    Manpower and Ground Forces


    India has the second largest manpower in its military globally - at 3,773,300 personell (2005), next only to China. Pakistan has a much smaller manpower of 1,449,000 personell which is proportionally higher than India in terms of their population ratios. Pakistan’s ground forces are equipped with American or Chinese weapons like FIM 92 Stinger SAMs, BGM-71 TOW anti-tank missiles, T-82 tanks and other equipments. Indian ground forces are equipped mostly by home-made or Soviet technologies like IR guided 9K35 Strela-10 SAMs, 3rd Gen IR guided Nag anti-tank missiles, UAVs and a large inventory of tanks and support vehicles. In terms of numbers and equipments, both Indian and Pakistani ground forces are on an closely equal footing.



    Comparison of Air Forces

    As of 2006, Indian Air Force (IAF) has over 170,000 personnel and 3,382 aircrafts of which 1,330 are combat aircrafts operating off 61 airbases - making it the fourth largest air force in the world. India’s strike fighters consist of Russian and French aircrafts like Mikoyan MiG-29, Dassault Mirage 2000, Sukhoi Su-30 - the last one developed under dual licensing by HAL, India’s aerospace industry in Bangalore. In addition to these, India’s air force owns ground attack aircrafts, reconnaissance aircrafts, UAVs and support helicopters - a majority of them either of Soviet or French origin.

    Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has about 530 combat aircrafts and over 65,000 active personnel, operating out of 9 airbases. Its strike fighters consist of US, Chinese and French fighters like F-16 Fighting Falcon, JF-17 Thunder and Dassault Mirage ROSE-III. It also has transport aircrafts like Lockheed Martin C-130 and Airbus A310, however there are no UAVs or reconnaissance aircrafts in the Pakistani Air Force.



    Naval and Sea Based Forces

    After the overwhelming losses in the 1971 war against India, Pakistan rapidly increased the size of its naval fleet which doubled in the 1980s after a massive 3.2 billion dollar military and economic aid by US President Ronald Reagan. At present, Pakistan’s navy owns over 45 vessels , most of them of US or European origin which include submarines, destroyers, frigates, patrol and mine warfare boats. It operates from its sole naval port in Karachi and naval facilities in UK, USA and France. It had recently been involved in various humanitarian operations during the 2005 Tsunami in South East Asia. Indian Navy on the other hand, is a three dimensional naval force consisting of missile-capable warships, an aircraft carrier, mine sweepers and a host of marine aircrafts; most of its warships indigenously built in its own dockyards. The navy operates from its major naval bases in Visakhapatnam, Mumbai, Goa and the Andaman Islands. Indian Navy has significant capabilities of being a true blue water Navy and is experienced both in war and peacekeeping operations in the Indian Ocean.



    The Nuclear Club

    India tested a nuclear bomb in 1974 using materials from Canada and technical help from Soviet Union. However the embargo in heavy water export from Canada after the test stalled India’s nuclear ambitions till 1998, when it shocked the world by conducting five nuclear detonations termed as Shakti tests. The highest yield was by a 48 kiloton staged fusion device, which India claimed was a thermonuclear bomb but seismic data on the tests proved otherwise. In the same year 1998, Pakistan conducted a series of six nuclear detonations in a test termed as Chagai. The highest yield was reported to be about 25 kiloton from a two stage boosted device. At present Pakistan’s nuclear stockpile is slated to be around 30-40 warheads while India possesses 70-100 warheads. The nuclearisation of India and Pakistan became a turning point in the history of conflicts between these two countries with high tensions but no war, not very much unlike the US vs USSR Cold War.



    Ballistic and Cruise Missile Proliferation


    In the nuclear delivery front, both India and Pakistan have a series of ballistic and cruise missiles in addition to ground attack aircrafts. The maximum range among India’s operational ballistic missiles is 2000 km achieved by Agni-2. India’s Agni ballistic missiles are indigenously developed by its own missile defence industry known as IGMDP. The maximum range among Pakistan’s missiles is by Hatf V Gauri which is reported to do over 2200 kms. Pakistan’s Hatf missiles are based on North Korean No-Dong series of IRBMs. Both Pakistan’s Hatf and India’s Agni ballistic missiles are nuclear capable. India has also developed a supersonic cruise missile BrahMos which is by far the fastest cruise missile at Mach 2.6 and maximum range of 290 km. It is reported to be nuclear capable but it is not confirmed yet. On the Pakistan side, its Babur cruise missile has a reported range of 700 km and a maximum speed of 880 km/h (Mach 0.7). As with India BrahMos, Babur is also reported to be nuclear capable but there is no confirmation yet.



    The Final Verdict


    Both Pakistan and India are almost evenly matched head to head in nuclear and missile fronts, however India has strategic and technological superiority over the conventional forces of Pakistan. Indian Navy is larger in fleet and personnel size with a more varied range of ships including an aircraft carrier while Pakistan’s Navy is smaller and has no aircraft carriers. Indian’s IAF is equipped with highly capable fighters like 4.5th generation Su-30s and 4th gen Mirage 2000s which are technologically superior to Pakistan PAF’s F-16s and Mirage IIIs. Additionally Indian pilots are better trained and more capable in air combat than Pakistani forces as was demonstrated by its various wars with Pakistan or joint exercises with US and UK. In the area of conventional ground forces both the Indian as well as Pakistani Army is well equipped and highly trained to survive in extremities of topography and climate in combat conditions, like wars in the high Himalayas.



    If a purely conventional war were to take place between both these countries, India would most likely overpower Pakistan owing to its superior military technology and infrastructure, larger manpower, more territorial area and a strategic advantage in its sea and air forces. It must also be noted that a war between these two countries will matter more than India’s conventional superiority as both these nations are nuclear powers on an equal deadlock. India has maintained a ‘no first use’ nuclear policy on the lines of a similar policy by China while Pakistan does not have any such policy, considering their only hope against India is in nuclear deterrance. It would be risky for India at the present scenario to go into any aggressive war against Pakistan as the repercussions would be serious a nuclear devastation for both countries.:disagree::flame::pdf:
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  2. fatman17
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    foxhound - aby the liberal? - please dont insult my intelligence - this article is full of distortions.
  3. amunhotep
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    amunhotep BANNED

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    special forces...

    which country holds the edge in asymetrical warfare ???
  4. Tiki Tam Tam
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    Tiki Tam Tam <b>MILITARY PROFESSIONALS</b>

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    Strength and numbers are not material.

    Topography, Generalship and Training is!

    and most importantly, the political will!
  5. F.O.X
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    F.O.X PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    There are fare then many mistakes in this articals.

    Well u acctualy cannot rate SF, dure there training, the only way to rate them is through there past experiences,& the past of SSG is full of Adventures,
    & i dont know much about Indian SF.:D

    Regards
    Wilco
  6. Munir
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    Munir PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    There is a mad scenario so even if Babur or MKI fail it will end with so many mushrooms that the earth will have to start over again... Does it really matter which party presses the first button?
  7. Awesome
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    Awesome RETIRED

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    ummm the nuclear warheads are incorrectly stated. Almost all independent experts have also agreed that India's nuclear warhead arsenal is very small and the number they have quoted for India would rather match with Pakistan's.
  8. Munir
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    Munir PDF THINK TANK: ANALYST

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    Asim,
    They have atleast a few dozens. So even if they fire a few and one hits Pakistani major city... And Pakistan can get Dilli... You still have to remember that these weapons are more dangerous then those on Japan and you should remember that the radiation will go beyond those border and ruin not only people but entire world economy...

    About those reports... We saw reports about WMD in Irac and we never saw reports about Al Qaida hitting WTC... I don't believe reports that much.
  9. acidwolf
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    acidwolf FULL MEMBER

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    foxhound all the numbers u mentioned r incorrect....plus zise doesn't matter quality matter....and not in a single way IAF is more superior to PAF.if iaf was any better than they wouldn't have lost 7 jets in one go by paf jet
  10. Keysersoze
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    Keysersoze SENIOR MEMBER

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    A number of points to make here....
    the article is quite obviously out of date.....

    Pakistan for example has a number of UAV's so that part is obviously wrong.

    NAG missile? is that actually in use yet? probably not as the last report that it was supposed to be ready in December of this year.

    Pilot training? This dude needs to check his history. Pakistanis pilots have flown pretty much every type of aircraft in the region from American to Russian aircraft (and gained quite a bit of combat experience in those areas as well). And have trained all around the world. The numbers show what happened in the past and two exercises mean about bugger all......

    I would have to say this......If the gentleman knew half of what the well informed people knew (but don't mention) on this site. Believe me, he would re assess his beliefs.
  11. bhangra12345
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    bhangra12345 FULL MEMBER

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    Keys,

    In addition to the flaws you pointed out,
    this is the statement in the article, where as its source of data says
    India&#039;s Defense Budget Rises 7%, to $20.11 Bn (defense procurement, military acquisition, defence purchasing)
    Pakistan News Service - PakTribune
    Less than 2.5 can imply 2%, 1% or even 0%
    more than 3% can imply 3%,4% or even 100%
    So where the f*ck did the approximations(use of ~) come from?


    He says
    so only pure numbers count and then goes on to say,
    clearly india has more than double manpower of Pakistan but then the author goes on to say

    when by his own criteria which he established earlier, it is not so. So what the hell are his criteria? Punching through invisible air?

    He then only lists out the numbers for airforce and navy. Notice he doesnt talk of submarines for India, interesting.
    whose seismic data? Which institutes and their results?- in short what are his sources?
    again sources please.
    So he never heard of agni-3? He doesnt talk of agni-3 but talks of Hatf-v and all.

    A partial analysis to say the least.
  12. yarmook
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    yarmook FULL MEMBER

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    Self boasting video, good for Indians

    Remember in 1965 we had ghazi submarine and whole Indian Navy were pis sing in there pants.

    cheers :bunny:
  13. bhangra12345
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    bhangra12345 FULL MEMBER

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    I remembered the dwarka incident, the whole war of 1965. now why dont you remember what happened 6 years after that?

    My d*ck is larger than yours? what else was the above post? -seriously grow up.
  14. su-47
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    su-47 SENIOR MEMBER

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    The article is crap. It mentions JF-17 and Nag, neither of which have entered service. it fails to mention Agni-3. It fails to mention that india has a BVR capable airforce, but pak doesnt. It has many inconsistencies, like the author initially saying that India has more manpower, and then later saying India and pak are on equal footing. Also, the defence budgets stated are wrong. both countries spend more than that on defence.

    And that part about indian pilots being superior, i think thats speculation. just coz indian pilots proved themselves to be good against US, French and British pilots doesnt necessarily mean they are better thank pak pilots. given the same opportunities, pak pilots might have done the same, or even better.
  15. fatman17
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    guys - no.1 - pls keep it clean and non-personal and no.2 this thread is a complete waste of time.
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