IAF Gnat Not First To Surrender. !

[DESERT FIGHTER]

So did the helicoptor land in Gilgit before the GNAT ?? or after it ?? oblivion.. anyone ??

Nope... it was after the IAF Dassault Ouragan and Gnat were forced to land.

 

[khail007]

IAF withdrawl of Vampires and Ouragans, singnificantly reduced the quantitative edge of IAF over PAF, though on a qualitative edge IAF was never and will never be superior... إنشاالله

 

[Windjammer]

LOl you force land a unarmed transport helicopter which wandered into your region ....that is proof of your PAF superiority......

where was your PAF when
1)Indians shot down Atlantique Plane

Unarmed aircraft size of an airliner cowardly shot down over Pakistani territory.

2)During Kargil when IAF was Bombing your soldier hiding in mountains

Read the articles below, and burst your bubble.

3)Or during the battle of Longewala where your Tank commander begged for help from PAF while getting pounded by IAF

Does devastation of Mukerian rail yards, destruction of Okha missile boat base and daring daylight attacks on Utterlai ring any bells,

4) when in 1997 IAF flew MIG-25R over pakistan that too with a supersonic boom

Insignificant publicity stunt to lift Bharti tail.

In the End Pakistan has
1)the most brave soldier (acc to them 1 pak soldier is equal 10 indian soldier)
2)the most lethal air fighters
3)and what not

but sadly it always end on loosing side ......I wonder why

Yup, the 2002 stand off proved all that and much more.

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied - Indian Express

Tehelka - The People's Paper

Indian newspapers and their public believe--or say they believe--that the conflict in Dras-Kargil last year was a military victory for India. In fact, it was a war 'won' by briefings and a slavishly supportive media. The Indian public wanted to be assured of 'victory,' and every effort was made to provide that assurance. Kargil was disastrous for Pakistan in worldwide political terms, and was an important public relations coup for the Indian government, both internally (in the run-up to the election), and internationally. But militarily it was a shambles for India whose brave but ill-prepared soldiers suffered gravely and would have sustained even heavier casualties had the conflict continued. The prime minister of Pakistan was ordered by the president of the United States to withdraw his troops from a successful military operation and this was done in time to save the Vajpayee government from the wave of criticism that would have swamped it had the confrontation not been stopped.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Salam Aleykum,

Windjammer bro

Re: the captured indian helicopter

I hope I'm not regurgitating too much.

It is an Alouette - AKA ''Chetak''

helicopter has the letters INDIAN ARMY painted on it along with the Indian tri color and rather interestingly, the Corps badge of XV Corps "Chinars" stationed @ Sri Nagar - occupied Kashmir.









here's another pic of the captured Gnat - at the prestigious PAF Museum Karachi.

the day it was captured (pilot activated landing gear as sign of surrender):

 

[Windjammer]

new kid in forum..guys,lets not burst him right now..welcome to the forum



you are still obsessed with point 5353???

Fact and fiction on Point 5353

Here's the difference.....
your source.

Volume 17 - Issue 20, Sep. 30 - Oct. 13, 2000
India's National Magazine
from the publishers of THE HINDU

Table of Contents
TERRITORY

Fact and fiction on Point 5353

My link.

Near Tiger Hill, Point 5353 still Pak-occupied


Manu Pubby : Drass, Mon Jul 13 2009, 02:11 hrs

Go and figure which is more up to date. !!

 

[Fazlu]

Self censored ------

 

[Windjammer]

Hey Abu, check this out, the Gnat surrender depicted by Hussaini, but the IAF pilot later was promoted to an Air Marshal.

Squadron Leader Brijpal Singh Sikand, Commander of an Indian fighter squadron, surrenders to a PAF F-104 in combat. The painting shows him landing his Gnat fighter at Pasrur, a Pakistani airfield near Gujranwala. The F-104 was flown by Flight Lieutenant Hakimullah who became the Air Chief two decades later. Sikand was taken prisonar and later rose to be an IAF Air Marshal. This encounter was the most unusual event of the 1965 Air War.

 

[Areesh]

Salam Aleykum,

Windjammer bro

Re: the captured indian helicopter

I hope I'm not regurgitating too much.

It is an Alouette - AKA ''Chetak''

helicopter has the letters INDIAN ARMY painted on it along with the Indian tri color and rather interestingly, the Corps badge of XV Corps "Chinars" stationed @ Sri Nagar - occupied Kashmir.

This lone helicopter might have got company but anyways. We were not at war.

 

[karan.1970]

Hey Abu, check this out, the Gnat surrender depicted by Hussaini, but the IAF pilot later was promoted to an Air Marshal.

......
. Sikand was taken prisonar and later rose to be an IAF Air Marshal. This encounter was the most unusual event of the 1965 Air War.

Yeah.. we in subcontinent are pretty forgiving to our defeated military men.. This guy rose to the rank of Air marshal and in Pakistan, the loser of 1987 Siachen and the architect of Pakistan's international ridicule due to Kargil became the President of Pakistan..

@ topic though, it was good that IAF believed Sikand's version of this incident and his career didnt suffer. Else, he would not have commanded the IAF 22 sqd during 1971 war as a wing commader in the calcutta sector which played a key role in defeat of PAF, notably in the battles of Garibpur and Boyra where 5 Sabres were shot down.

Coincidently one of the shot down & captured pilots was Parvez Mehdi Qureshi who later became the Chief of Air Staff of the Pakistan Air Force

Then Flt Lt Parvez Mehdi Quereshi, who baled out after being hit by Lazarus's Gnat was taken POW. He retired as the Chief of Pakistani Air Force in 2001.

AFTER THE BATTLE: The Defence Minister visits the No.22 Sqn after the November 22 Air battle over Boyra which knocked down Three Sabres of the PAF 14 Sqn. From right to left in the pic. Air Marshal H C Dewan, AOC in C , Eastern Air Command, Wg Cdr B S Sikand,OC No.22 Gnats. Babu Jagjivan Ram and his wife , Flt Lt M A Ganapathy, Fg Off R A Massey, Fg Off D Lazarus, Fg Off K B Bagchi (ATC),Fg Off Soarez (the fourth pilot in the formation).

 

[SQ8]

Yeah.. we in subcontinent are pretty forgiving to our defeated military men.. This guy rose to the rank of Air marshal and in Pakistan, the loser of 1987 Siachen and the architect of Pakistan's international ridicule due to Kargil became the President of Pakistan..

@ topic though, it was good that IAF believed Sikand's version of this incident and his career didnt suffer. Else, he would not have commanded the IAF 22 sqd during 1971 war as a wing commader in the calcutta sector which played a key role in defeat of PAF, notably in the battles of Garibpur and Boyra where 5 Sabres were shot down.

Coincidently one of the shot down & captured pilots was Parvez Mehdi Qureshi who later became the Chief of Air Staff of the Pakistan Air Force

Interesting idea then.. get shot down.. go up the ranks

Although it was an excellent achievement, taking down an outnumbered squadron 10 to 1.

 

[John Doe]

Where 5 Sabres were shot down.

Coincidently one of the shot down & captured pilots was Parvez Mehdi Qureshi who later became the Chief of Air Staff of the Pakistan Air Force

In the interest of history, I would like to correct you about the 5 sabres.

Two were shot down for sure, the photos are already in the public domain. The third one flew back to East Pakistan, piloted by Afzal Chaudhary, and reportedly crashed in the Chaugacha Lake.

 

[SQ8]

In the interest of history, I would like to correct you about the 5 sabres.

Two were shot down for sure, the photos are already in the public domain. The third one flew back to East Pakistan, piloted by Afzal Chaudhary, and reportedly crashed in the Chaugacha Lake.

In fact it needs further correction.

The mission was a four ship CAS(where the 5th came in from is just pure fiction)..22nd november.
It was led by the 14 sq OC..
with Flg off Khalil as no 2
Flt lt PQ medhdi as no3
and Flg off Sajjad Noor who made a technical abort.

During their attack.. No 2 and 3 were shot down the second they reported Gnats.. Their leader never was there.. he rolled away from the battle. and then even claimed a gnat.. which was never seen in the film.

 

[karan.1970]

In the interest of history, I would like to correct you about the 5 sabres.

Two were shot down for sure, the photos are already in the public domain. The third one flew back to East Pakistan, piloted by Afzal Chaudhary, and reportedly crashed in the Chaugacha Lake.

This 2 kills + 1 damage were in battle of Boyra which was 4 on 4 engagement

If I read it right there was another battle with a gap of 1 day- Battle of Garibpur which was a 4 (IAF) on 3 where all 3 PAF jets were shot down.


Battle of Boyra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Battle of Garibpur - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Unless both refer to same, the tally comes to 5

 

[SQ8]

Most battles are won or lost on the strategy tables, much before the 1st bullet is even fired. Dont diss IAF's victory because PAF was not well prepared or because Pakistani generals moved key assets to West Pakistan instead of using them to defend Dhaka.

Mostly in India, we do not hero worship individuals for their super human contribution in a battle. Military is mostly treated as a tool for fulfilling a political / strategic objective. Hence while IAF may not boast of a hero like Alam or may not have a story to tell about individual achievements like how an enemy plane was captured, it did play a crucial role in meeting the Indian war objectives in 1971 and denying Pakistan from meeting its objectives in 1965. That I believe is achievement enough ...

And while IAF does not go around parading pictures of a captured enemy plane or a helicoptor in its museums, it does take solace in the fact that the 1st contribution to Bangladesh's Air force in terms of 8 PAF captured Sabre jets was to some extent due to its efforts..

the BAF officers would have never allowed the IAF to take them, it seems a hollow statement to make.
the rest is all self gratification and pointless here.

 

[karan.1970]

the BAF officers would have never allowed the IAF to take them, it seems a hollow statement to make.
.

Why would IAF even want to take them? We had no infrastructure to maintain them anyway. The point I was making was that Mukti Bahini was able to secure those jets only because India won the war and liberated Bangladesh.. And IAF had its own little role in that..