Hoisting of national flag upsets militant group

[Chak Bamu]

I don't want to continue this discussion any further, i have already admitted that i'm not a specialist and was only here to logicate with proof that there are certain technologies in the world that can prove to be useful for our cause and that we should exploit them. And damn i thought wrong! the kind of attitude i was looking is completely absent here. I know that my idea (or others that share this idea) is not flawed, it is happening some where in the world, maybe even in Pakistan.

The thing is we are always looking at somebody to do the dirty work first and then we look out to either copy the stuff or JV with some other country. I am pretty sure if i was an American i would be getting some +ve reviews cause you know.... they set the standards in such tech. but alas! our bums are too lazy to move because there is "shortage" of funds and that there is no "R and D".

And then of course there are the one liners....
"how"
"how old are you"

No wonder we don't produce good engineers, maybe we should import some!

Young man. I am an engineer. I've been known to improvise a solution with satisfactory results. You could even call me an inventor if you like. I designed and had fabricated a paddle dyeing machine which gave very good results - Flexible in heating solutions, very low abrasion, Good capacity, and low liquor ratio (best of all). The downside was lot to lot variation, but in socks business it is not critical.

I did it with a discarded hull of a simple bleaching & Dyeing 'winch' machine. The cost of conversion was less than Rs. 100,000.

So, the point is that your whining and thrashing is really your very own fault. You are trying to talk about stuff of which you have little or no knowledge. When you are caught by your own inadequacy, you are quick to blame others. A simple and effective policy would have been to raise questions politely, instead of garbling cynicism and across the board accusations. You suffer from the classical Pakistani disease of negativity and your attempt to see something positive lies in ruins because of it. I feel motivated to write this post because instead of looking at your faults, you have chosen to malign Pakistani engineers. I suppose you felt good writing rubbish about engineers? Yeah, that is a symptom of the disease I alluded to above. The patient must say something nasty to create a (non-existent) justification and feel good about themselves.

How are you feeling now?

 

[FunkyGen]

Young man. I am an engineer. I've been known to improvise a solution with satisfactory results. You could even call me an inventor if you like. I designed and had fabricated a paddle dyeing machine which gave very good results - Flexible in heating solutions, very low abrasion, Good capacity, and low liquor ratio (best of all). The downside was lot to lot variation, but in socks business it is not critical.

I did it with a discarded hull of a simple bleaching & Dyeing 'winch' machine. The cost of conversion was less than Rs. 100,000.

So, the point is that your whining and thrashing is really your very own fault. You are trying to talk about stuff of which you have little or no knowledge. When you are caught by your own inadequacy, you are quick to blame others. A simple and effective policy would have been to raise questions politely, instead of garbling cynicism and across the board accusations. You suffer from the classical Pakistani disease of negativity and your attempt to see something positive lies in ruins because of it. I feel motivated to write this post because instead of looking at your faults, you have chosen to malign Pakistani engineers. I suppose you felt good writing rubbish about engineers? Yeah, that is a symptom of the disease I alluded to above. The patient must say something nasty to create a (non-existent) justification and feel good about themselves.

How are you feeling now?

First of all about impolite language, i would like to let you know that after a few posts i asked the think tank whether he was angry and that we should make up, i was hoping that this conversation be ended but he chose to reply with some thing like "emitting from your behind" which i took as an insult (i'm a pathan anyways so no regrets there), i know i have inadequate knowledge but that doesn't mean that the idea is inadequate and be discarded rather i was hoping that he point out how it is going to happen so that we can have a positive discussion some where (and he did for some time and then it was all blame game)... negativity could have waited. But he chose to take me head on like a raging bull and maybe was expecting a trophy or something, i'm sorry there was never one that existed.
I accept your criticism of my knowledge being inadequate, but i ever wonder where i maligned Pakistani engineers. Where did i say that Pakistani engineers are not capable actually it's quite the opposite to what i said. The thing is we never really do respect innovation even if it's stupid and that was the whole point. I agree to the whole point of losing my cool over a thing where i shouldn't have. The thing is it is the same in class, i often ask questions even if they're remotely related to the subject or i write them down so that i can ask them later, maybe i can prove something maybe i can't, but at the end it quenches my thirst, it make me feel calm. Maybe i am too arrogant or too cocky and i admit it, but i have rarely see people question in my class so maybe that's the reason.
I remember when i was very young i asked my uncle why tanks have tracks and cars don't, well the point is i have been a defence enthusiast for a long time now. Anyways, conclusion is there should be a thread for such things if possible and that talk is cheap (but at least the videos and the pic. wasn't fake).

 

[Bratva]

With all the arguing, Someone could have told the funky chap in technical terms why drones can't pick IEDs. For many reasons, first one Drones uses lasers and IR's.IED are buried in the ground. Drones can't use a laser to detect something buried inside a ground.

Now for IR and thermal imaging part. Inherent weakness of airborne IR or thermal imager sensors are, If a heat emitting body is cloaked with appropriate things, it can't be detected If a heat emitting body is hidden inside ground or a tunnel, It can't pick it's signature either because earth is itself a heat radiating body. You should see American drone strik videos or Helicopter FLIR videos on ********.com or youtube to get an idea that IR can detect things on surface only

Now think for a second, does IED emit heat? No. Does ID buried in a earth? Yes. So how a frigging IED can be detected above from air due to sensors inherent weakness?

This is what IED looks like. Observe the explosives enclosed in metals or plastic bages or mines. Air borne thermal imagers or IR can't pick metals. You need something on the ground. Something like Mine detector type device which can detect metals !

The Detection Dilemma

Effective solution of the problem posed by land mines means that close to 100% of the mines in any area must be detected at the fastest rate possible and with few false alarms (i.e., mistaking a buried object, such as a rock, for a mine). The United Nations, for example, has set the detection goal at 99.6%, and the U.S. Army's allowable false-alarm rate is one false alarm in every 1.25 square meters. No existing land-mine detection system meets these criteria. And the reasons for this failure have as much to do with the mines themselves and the variety of environments in which they are buried as with the limits or flaws in the current technology.

Land mines are of two basic types--antitank and antipersonnel. Antitank mines are larger and more powerful than antipersonnel mines. However, antipersonnel mines are the most common type of mine, yet the most difficult to find because they are small and often made of plastic. Antitank mines generally contain more metal than do antipersonnel mines and are thus more easily detectable by simple metal detectors. Both types are buried as close to the surface as possible and are found in a variety of soils and terrain--rocky or sandy soil, open fields, forested areas, steep terrain, jungle. For both types of mines, detonation is typically caused by pressure, although some are activated by a trip-wire or other mechanisms. Thus, a land-mine detector must do its job without having direct contact with a mine. It also must be able to locate all types of mines individually in a variety of environments.


Various detection technologies are currently used, each with limits or flaws. Dogs and other "sniffers" have high ongoing expenses, are subject to fatigue, and can be fooled by masked scents. Metal detectors are sensitive to metal mines and firing pins but cannot reliably find plastic mines. Infrared detectors effectively detect recently placed mines, but they are expensive and limited to certain temperature conditions. Thermal neutron activation detectors are accurate but are large for field use, slow, and expensive. ( He is talking about ground based sensors, not airborne sensors)

In early attempts, ground-penetrating radar was sensitive to large mines, had good coverage rate at a distance, and with signal processing, could discriminate antitank mines from clutter such as rocks beneath the ground surface. This type of radar, however, remains expensive, cannot detect antipersonnel mines because its resolution is too low, and frequently records false alarms from clutter sources.

Land-Mine Detection

Open the link and read it's content.

That's why meray azeez we use, Land mine detector type devices, Such devices send waves which can penetrate earth surface and return back. Here read this to clear your concept

HowStuffWorks "How Metal Detectors Work"

HowStuffWorks "How IEDs Work"

HowStuffWorks "Defeating and Detecting IEDs" ("Defeating and Detecting IEDs")

Detecting IEDs a daunting challenge for U.S. military - CNN.com

And that's why american's can't detect IED's through thermal imagers and still employ mine detectors type devices to search for IED's

 

[FunkyGen]

With all the arguing, Someone could have told the funky chap in technical terms why drones can't pick IEDs. For many reasons, first one Drones uses lasers and IR's.IED are buried in the ground. Drones can't use a laser to detect something buried inside a ground.

Now for IR and thermal imaging part. Inherent weakness of airborne IR or thermal imager sensors are, If a heat emitting body is cloaked with appropriate things, it can't be detected If a heat emitting body is hidden inside ground or a tunnel, It can't pick it's signature either because earth is itself a heat radiating body or IR needs to operate at a certain temperature, if there are temperature variations how can they detect a buried object from air?

Now think for a second, does IED emit heat? No. Does ID buried in a earth? Yes. So how a frigging IED can be detected above from air due to sensors inherent weakness?

This is what IED looks like. Observe the explosives enclosed in metals or plastic bages or mines. Air borne thermal imagers or IR can't pick metals. You need something on the ground. Something like Mine detector type device which can detect metals !

That's why meray azeez we use, Land mine detector type devices, Such devices send waves which can penetrate earth surface and return back. Here read this to clear your concept

HowStuffWorks "How Metal Detectors Work"

HowStuffWorks "How IEDs Work"

HowStuffWorks "Defeating and Detecting IEDs" ("Defeating and Detecting IEDs")

Detecting IEDs a daunting challenge for U.S. military - CNN.com

And that's why american's can't detect IED's through thermal imagers and still employ mine detectors type devices to search for IED's

O bhai thanks for the post but i never proposed for one, here is my post after somebody said the exact same thing as you, i didn't propose it in the first place....

Yaar i gave a very vague idea, i don't stand behind it due to poor understanding but i stand behind the fact that it will be possible one day and there is work being done on the issue

Parh to lo yara pehle....

 

[FunkyGen]

Now for IR and thermal imaging part. Inherent weakness of airborne IR or thermal imager sensors are, If a heat emitting body is cloaked with appropriate things, it can't be detected If a heat emitting body is hidden inside ground or a tunnel, It can't pick it's signature either because earth is itself a heat radiating body. You should see American drone strik videos or Helicopter FLIR videos on ********.com or youtube to get an idea that IR can detect things on surface only

Hmmm....
Well at least you admit that it would detect them when the target is not "cloaked".... whole idea is of a silent assassin type thing which hunts at night, i would not like to indulge into further discussion here.
As far as ieds are concerned i've already said i don't stand behind it but even i understand that a separate sort of sensor package is required.

 

[Bratva]

O bhai thanks for the post but i never proposed for one, here is my post after somebody said the exact same thing as you, i didn't propose it in the first place....

Parh to lo yara pehle....

Bhai meray There is no work done on the idea you proposed. Your understanding is nill in this subject and when some one trying to explain the "SCIENCE" behind your wrongful idea, you are still persistent you are correct somehow yet you claim you are here to gain knowledge. Irony

Airborne assets can detect IED only If they see the persons burying them in ground. You can watch videos on youtube or ********.

For this you need endurance, Quad copters doesn't have endurance for such kind intense surveillance. You need bigger drones like the americans use.

Hmmm....
Well at least you admit that it would detect them when the target is not "cloaked".... whole idea is of a silent assassin type thing which hunts at night, i would not like to indulge into further discussion here.

As far as ieds are concerned i've already said i don't stand behind it but even i understand that a separate sort of sensor package is required.

Your understanding is flawed. Problem with you is, whatever idea your mind ponders, it would be automatically be flawed. The first rule of IED is, It is never implanted on surface. It is always cloaked in something. Weather it be oil barrel, a car, Or beneath a rock.

 

[FunkyGen]

Bhai meray There is no work done on the idea you proposed. Your understanding is nill in this subject and when some one trying to explain the "SCIENCE" behind your wrongful idea, you are still persistent you are correct somehow yet you claim you are here to gain knowledge. Irony
Airborne assets can detect IED only If they see the persons burying them in ground. You can watch videos on youtube or ********.
For this you need endurance, Quad copters doesn't have endurance for such kind intense surveillance. You need bigger drones like the americans use.

Again i have to say that i never proposed for an "ied detecting drone".... why are bringing it up then? why are you trying to blame me for something i didn't even do?

Your understanding is flawed. Problem with you is, whatever idea your mind ponders, it would be automatically be flawed. The first rule of IED is, It is never implanted on surface. It is always cloaked in something. Weather it be oil barrel, a car, Or beneath a rock.

Please refer to my response.... and don't you think you are going a bit over board eh?

 

[Bratva]

Again i have to say that i never proposed for an "ied detecting drone".... why are bringing it up then? why are you trying to blame me for something i didn't even do?

Errrr,,,,, so what were you proposing quad copters or Drones for ?

 

[FunkyGen]

Errrr,,,,, so what were you proposing quad copters or Drones for ?

For attack roles, i gave the specifications in my previous posts you are free to pick up the mistakes but i do expect an apology for being blamed for something i didn't even do, for something i did please do blame me.

 

[Bratva]

For attack roles, i gave the specifications in my previous posts you are free to pick up the mistakes but i do expect an apology for being blamed for something i didn't even do, for something i did please do blame me.

For Attack roles? Both quadcopters and drones need clear line of sight to operate if you operate them through radio frequency, which means we need a plain terrain for it to work. With a mountainous terrain of FATA, you can't use RF operated drones or quad copters. For this you need satellite to operate them which we don't have. Now I have talked about operating capability and endurance of quadcopter. It is best used for CQB or for a stealth mission. SSG team penetrating a hostile area and need a recce of particular house.

The idea If drone is need to be used for offensive roles, you need a satellite.

Well i used the word 2d and 3d, the concept is much like mapping terrain to know where the weak spots are, where the enemy can hide ied s in the form of rocks and where the terrain has a "ambush history", once done the area should be marked respectively and precautions should be taken to tread through or deploy early warning assets which again are drones but this time should be armed. A generation ahead step would be to develop head sights that can mark the terrain in different colours giving the soldiers the much needed early warning.

Bhai mere ye app ka hi quote hai,,, Kabhi kuch keh rahi ho to kabhi kuch. But when someone tried to explain you why IED can't be detected by drones, you started saying I didn't ask for it.Then you say you don't have understanding of things, but you are persistent on things that it can't be done while in practical world It can't be done. Then you back tracked and then started saying something else. You are flip flopping too much

 

[FunkyGen]

For Attack roles? Both quadcopters and drones need clear line of sight to operate if you operate them through radio frequency, which means we need a plain terrain for it to work. With a mountainous terrain of FATA, you can't use RF operated drones or quad copters. For this you need satellite to operate them which we don't have. Now I have talked about operating capability and endurance of quadcopter. It is best used for CQB or for a stealth mission. SSG team penetrating a hostile area and need a recce of particular house.
The idea If drone is need to be used for offensive roles, you need a satellite.

I want yes or no answer (sorry if you think i'm arrogant)
Is the idea possible or not?
do we have the technology?
Can't we make use of off the shelf components? peace

 

[Bratva]

I want yes or no answer (sorry if you think i'm arrogant)
Is the idea possible or not?
do we have the technology?
Can't we make use of off the shelf components? peace

With so many links I have shared which might had increased your knowledge and given you your answers I had a feeling guy who said this might be interested in background of things but Nah!

I accept your criticism of my knowledge being inadequate, but i ever wonder where i maligned Pakistani engineers. Where did i say that Pakistani engineers are not capable actually it's quite the opposite to what i said. The thing is we never really do respect innovation even if it's stupid and that was the whole point. I agree to the whole point of losing my cool over a thing where i shouldn't have. The thing is it is the same in class, i often ask questions even if they're remotely related to the subject or i write them down so that i can ask them later, maybe i can prove something maybe i can't, but at the end it quenches my thirst, it make me feel calm. Maybe i am too arrogant or too cocky and i admit it, but i have rarely see people question in my class so maybe that's the reason.

I remember when i was very young i asked my uncle why tanks have tracks and cars don't, well the point is i have been a defence enthusiast for a long time now. Anyways, conclusion is there should be a thread for such things if possible and that talk is cheap

Idea of what exactly? I don't even know what you are asking, sometimes you say Drones for IEDs, than you deny it and says Drones for offensive. You have to be specific what is your idea?

 

[FunkyGen]

Bhai mere ye app ka hi quote hai,,, Kabhi kuch keh rahi ho to kabhi kuch. But when someone tried to explain you why IED can't be detected by drones, you started saying I didn't ask for it.Then you say you don't have understanding of things, but you are persistent on things that it can't be done while in practical world It can't be done. Then you back tracked and then started saying something else. You are flip flopping too much

Point me one instance where i said it would detect ied? i said it would "mark the terrain" a "specific color" and it would work like an early warning, detecting ieds was not the main concern here. But i was informed it's already being done as a SOP so it's cool.

Idea of what exactly? I don't even know what you are asking, sometimes you say Drones for IEDs, than you deny it and says Drones for offensive. You have to be specific what is your idea?

I don't study in a defence university, rather a civilian one and you should know what kind of question people ask there!

With so many links I have shared which might had increased your knowledge and given you your answers I had a feeling guy who said this might be interested in background of things but Nah!

Your links were regarding detecting ieds which i excused my self of. Gotta go i have work to do.

 

[Bratva]

^ What is your idea, I asked, not where you study. Yes drones are used for mapping the terrain. No we don't have technology to do that and by Marking the terrain. In technical terms it is called finding Coordinates of that land or terrain. Address of a specific plot of a land in degrees which Drones send back to it's operators.

 

[FunkyGen]

^ What is your idea, I asked, not where you study. Yes drones are used for mapping the terrain. No we don't have technology to do that and by Marking the terrain. In technical terms it is called finding Coordinates of that land or terrain. Address of a specific plot of a land in degrees which Drones send back to it's operators.

You saw the video didn't you?