Here are hard facts about Malaysia 777 missing flight

Discussion in 'Central & South Asia' started by American Eagle, Mar 18, 2014.

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  1. American Eagle
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    American Eagle MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

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    Just passing it on as I received it. It is a very interesting article by some one who is expressing his opinion...not necessarily the true facts but it does make one think.

    This is interesting........maybe time will tell !

    From a retired AF colonel, now a pilot for AA, flying the Boeing 777.

    All,

    Just a quick update with what I know about the Malaysia 777 disappearance. The Boeing 777 is the airplane that I fly. It is a great, safe airplane to fly. It has, for the most part, triple redundancy in most of its systems, so if one complete system breaks (not just parts of a system), there are usually 2 more to carry the load. It’s also designed to be easy to employ so 3rdworld pilots can successfully fly it. Sometimes, even that doesn’t work …as the Asiana guys in San Fran showed us. A perfectly good airplane on a beautiful, sunny day…and they were able to crash it. It took some doing, but they were able to defeat a bunch of safety systems and get it to where the airplane would not help them and the pilots were too stupid/scared/unskilled/tired to save themselves.

    There’s many ways to fly the 777 and there are safety layers and redundancies built into the airplane. It is tough to screw up and the airplane will alert you in many ways (noises, alarms, bells and whistles, plus feed back thru the control yoke and rudder pedals and throttles. In some cases the airplane’s throttles ‘come alive’ if you are going to slow for a sustained period of time) All designed to help. But, it’s also non-intrusive. If you fly the airplane in the parameters it was designed for, you will never know these other things exist. The computers actually ‘help’ you and the designers made it for the way pilots think and react. Very Nice.

    Now to Malaysia. There are so many communication systems on the airplane. 3 VHF radios. 2 SatCom systems. 2 HF radio systems. Plus Transpoders and active, ‘real time’ monitoring through CPDLC (Controller to Pilot Data Link Clearance) and ADS B(Air Data Service) through the SatCom systems and ACARS (Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System) thru the VHF, HF and SatCom systems. The air traffic controllers can tell where we are, speed, altitude, etc as well as what our computers and flight guidance system has set into our control panels. Big Brother for sure! However, most of these things can be turned off.

    But, there are a few systems that can’t be turned off and one, as reported by the WSJ, is the engine monitoring systems (not sure what the acronym for that is, but I’m sure there is one….it’s aviation…there has to be an acronym!). The Malaysia airplane, like our 777-200’s, use Rolls Royce Trent Engines (as a piece of trivia….Rolls Royce names their motors after rivers….because they always keep on running!) Rolls Royce leases these motors to us and they monitor them all the time they are running. In fact, a few years back, one of our 777’s developed a slow oil leak due and partial equipment failure. It wasn’t bad enough to set off the airplane’s alerting system, but RR was looking at it on their computers. They are in England, they contact our dispatch in Texas, Dispatch sends a message to the crew via SatCom in the North Pacific, telling them that RR wants them to closely monitor oil pressure and temp on the left engine. Also, during the descent, don’t retard the throttle to idle…keep it at or above a certain rpm. Additionally, they wanted the crew to turn on the engine ‘anti ice’ system as the heats some of the engine components.

    The crew did all of that and landed uneventfully, but after landing and during the taxi in, the left engine shut itself down using it’s redundant, computerized operating system that has a logic tree that will not allow it to be shut down if the airplane is in the air…only on the ground. Pretty good tech. Anyway, the point was, that RR monitors those engines 100% of the time they are operating. The WSJ reported that RR indicated the engines on the Malaysia 777 were running normally for 4 to 5 hours after the reported disappearance. Malaysia denies this. We shall see.

    That is all!
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  2. Peter C
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    Peter C FULL MEMBER

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  3. Not Sure
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    Not Sure FULL MEMBER

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    Entire passage appears to be nothing more than a racist 1st world vs 3rd world rant. What new did this guy write?

    In this long passage, except one line - that the engines keep sending info time to time back to Rolls Royce (Which we all are already aware of since day 1), there is absolutely nothing but telling the readers that 3rd world countries' services are destined to be substandard - merely because they are 3rd world countries, no other reason.



    Seriously, where the heck is all that ^^^ coming from?

    This guy has a psychological issue, nothing more.
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  4. American Eagle
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    American Eagle MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

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    I passed on comments by a current American Airlines pilot, not my remarks except to introduce it.

    I deleted his last paragraph which you copied before deleted and used to slam those who are less fortunate it. So, my version was edited to remove the biases remarks you want to grab hold of. You are a sad case to want to seek to stir up hate. I deleted stupid remarks but kept the technial info which is what the total readership here just might be interested in.

    And, you have to deal with the reality that many less developed countries use contract pilots from the UK, US, Canada, Germany, etc. due to not having educated, well flight trained big plane pilots of their own.

    If you want to believe this AA pilot, who is also a retired USAF pilot, full Colonel, is out to belittle folks, that is your interpretation.

    I live in a real world and recognize that there are some airlines which are not as sophisticated as those who fly for AA, PIA, British Air, Air France, Lufthansa, etc, etc.

    So understand your remarks are misdirected to me, but that is OK. I am a non-pilot retired USAF full Colonel and know the reverse biases of some in today's hate driven maniacal religious zealotry going on all around all of us, you and me.
  5. Developereo
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    Developereo PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT

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    Just because the guy is an AA pilot doesn't mean we should take his opinions as gospel truth.

    The engine pings are in debate, since Malaysia Airlines did not subscribe to the monitoring service. Even so, there are confusing claims -- from four hours to five hours flying time. Other satellite pings show the plane over the Indian ocean after eight hours. So, was the plane gliding for three hours?

    The problem is that the media has a tendency to be irresponsible and pounce an any sensationalist piece of crap. This makes Malaysia look bad because everybody and their grandmother is spouting their theories all over the place, and the media "reports" them sounding like factual official statements.

    Case in point: Malaysian military tracked some pings which indicated that some aircraft -- not sure which -- flew westward over Malaysia into the Malacca Straits. Media jumped upon it and suggested it was MH370. The Malaysian military had said nothing of the sort: they simply said that they could not rule out the possibility until further investigation, and the search in the Gulf of Thailand would continue.
  6. Not Sure
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    Not Sure FULL MEMBER

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    You know what happened just now? I thought you were endorsing the comments of that jerk of a pilot for his ex employer. I thought I will point it out and you will realize. But no, after the endorsement, for how zealously you actually defended that guy made me realize what a racist you yourself are. What makes it even worse is that you are full aware how racist his remarks are, since you ended up deleting the last paragraph after I pointed out. You wouldn't need to do that if that paragraph did not show his racist views.


    P.S. What on earth made you think I took it as a passage written by you? If I read the entire passage, then surely I must have read the very first line in your post, right? Use some common sense before calling others "sad cases". You are one!
  7. Chola warrior
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    Chola warrior FULL MEMBER

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    Started sincerely and lost it with loud laugh when I came to the line :

    The whole thing seems like some 7th grade kid filling up words for essay with all craps.



    :omghaha:
  8. American Eagle
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    American Eagle MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

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    "Not Sure" uses a paragraph which noting the date and time line you will see I omitted before he chose to use it from my first draft. All anyone has to do is read the post noting Today at 6:52 AM.

    Now note "Not Sures" posting time line: Today at 7:03 AM

    It is immature and nothing less than race baiting on the part of Not Sure. Shame on you. End of my discussion except to note that all 777's have the same technology configuration as noted by the US still a flying Senior AA pilot described in his unoffensive paragraphs.

    Asiana Airlines Flight 214

    On the morning of Saturday, July 6, 2013, the Boeing 777-200ER aircraft operating the flight crashed on final approach into SFO.

    Crew

    The aircrew was three captains and one first officer. Captain Lee Jung Min (Hangul: 이정민; Hanja: 李鄭閔), aged 48, in the right seat (co-pilot position)[27] filled the dual role of a check/instructor captain and pilot in command, responsible for the safe operation of the flight.[28] He had 12,387 hours of flying experience of which 3,220 were in a 777.[29] This was his first flight as an instructor.[30]

    Captain Lee Kang Guk (이강국; 李江鞠; variant Lee Gang-guk), aged 45, in the left seat (captain's position) was the pilot receiving his initial operating experience (IOE) training and was halfway through Asiana's IOE requirements. He had 9,793 hours of flying experience, of which 43 were in a 777 over 9 flights,[31] and was operating the controls under the supervision of the instructor in the right seat.[20][32] This was Lee Kang-kook's first landing at SFO in this aircraft type, although he had previously landed there in a Boeing 747 and other aircraft.[33][34] This was his first flight with Lee Jeong-min.[30]

    At the time of the crash, relief first officer Bong Dong-won, 41, was observing from the cockpit jump seat. Relief captain Lee Jong-joo, 52, occupied a business-class seat in the passenger cabin.[20][35]

    The first officer, who had been in the cockpit, received medical treatment for a cracked rib; none of the other pilots needed hospital care.[36]

    Twelve flight attendants were onboard: ten South Korean and two Thai. Six flight attendants received physical and emotional treatment. The other six returned to South Korea.[10][37]
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
  9. HeinzG
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    HeinzG FULL MEMBER

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    It may be true to some countries but as for Sri Lanka's national carrier Sri Lankan Air Lines it do not use foreign pilots because we posses pilots as good as other nations especially in the so called developed countries.

    Sri Lankan Air Line flight record is a testimony to that.

    AFAIK I do not believe that Asian countries even though some are 3rd world as you say need foreign pilots to run there air crafts.
  10. American Eagle
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    American Eagle MILITARY PROFESSIONAL

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    I played rugby for the Karachi Camels in a tournament in old Ceylon, now named Sri Lanka. Drank some of that really excellent Ceylon cha, and generally was welcomed and had a very good time.

    FYI, I was the only American on the Karachi Camels rugby team. Others were Pakistanis, Brits, Aussies, maybe one then West German.

    Then age 24, now age 74, progress has been made in Sri Lanka, but a long drawn out war with "rebels" only seems to have lost steam and more or less halted in the past year.

    Thanks for your comments. You sound like a good citizen speaking on behalf of your good nation. Patriotism goes a long way in my book for anyone/everyone who stands up for what is good and noble in all our countries.
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  11. nick_indian
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    nick_indian SENIOR MEMBER

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    Is there data out there to prove that "3rdWorld" pilots crash more planes than "1st world pilots" ?
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  12. Not Sure
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    Not Sure FULL MEMBER

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    Yeah... as the title of the thread begins to state: "Here are hard facts..."

    Airline accident ratings

    These 1st world countries with younger aircrafts have much greater probability of crashes, but who are we to point fingers, we are so substandard for just being ourselves (These are hard facts according to the OP) :lol:

    Number of pilots caught drunk while piloting the plane has been a lot greater in the US (Remember last year an American pilot fell asleep and plane flew 200 miles off Minneapolis, the destination?) than rest of the world put together, but the most dangerous country to fly in was Russia two years ago - Both first world countries.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2014
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  13. HeinzG
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    HeinzG FULL MEMBER

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    Glad to hear that you have played rugby. I too have played rugby for a local club few years back. Great game Rugby is. It is always a pleasure to meet a commrade.
  14. janon
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    janon BANNED

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    @American Eagle : The reaction you got from Indians was completely understandable. As soon as I started reading the article, I wanted to type the same response, without even having read the nasty paragraph that you deleted. The anger was not toward you, but at whoever wrote it.

    Sentences like ''designed to be easy to employ so that they can be operated by 3rd world pilots'' is very insulting, and reeks of a superiority complex. As if 3rd world pilots can only handle simple systems, while complex ones are best left to smarter first worlders.

    It is true that rich and developed countries like the USA have a larger pool of talented people to draw from - pilots or doctors or engineers or scientists, than poorer countries do. But suggesting that a professional with the same qualifications and expertise in a 3rd world country is still less worthy than one from a first world country is crass condescention. While our talent pool may be smaller, our talent is no less than yours.

    It is OK for you to post the articlee here; but when some obvious racism or condescension is pointed out in it, you would do well not to defend it. You can simply disassociate yourself from those statements, instead of defending them.

    Once I remember watching Glenn Beck on Fox news, ridiculing Indian doctors and hospitals, when they provided a life saving surgery to an American citizen at a fraction of the cost that an American hospital would have charged for the same service. Here is a 'Young Turks' segment explaining why Beck was wrong, and I think the message applies here too, so please watch it:



    @Not Sure @nick_indian
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  15. illusion8
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    illusion8 ELITE MEMBER

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    @janon, @Not Sure - leaving aside the asinine remarks of the jack@ss who wrote that comment - there are a few questions pertaining to the airplane.

    Why did it actually divert to the west?, why wasn't there any mayday calls if the airplane was in any danger?, why isn't the debris of the plane been located assuming it went down? and, if it did not, then where the hell is it?