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Analysis: Will India’s S-400 missiles checkmate Pakistan?

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Analysis: Will India’s S-400 missiles checkmate Pakistan?
By Naveed Ahmad
Published: April 29, 2016


1094168-fefafeacddedd-1461927577-829-640x480.jpg

PHOTO: HindustanTimes

The S-400, a Russian integrated air defense system, is the forthcoming state-of-the-art augmentation of the Indian military arsenal. Last December, India’s premier Narendra Modi and Russian president Vladimir Putin finalised the milestone deal. Dialogue on modalities led India to revise its need from 12 battalions or units to five at an undisclosed cost running into billions of dollars. So far, there is no confirmation as to when the deliveries will begin.

The S-400 uses four different missiles along with a multilayered radar tracking umbrella to cover its entire performance envelope. When deployed along the border with Pakistan, the system will provide India with 600kms radar coverage and the option of shooting down a hostile aircraft or missile 400kms to 40kms outside its territory.

Each S-400 battalion is equipped with eight launchers, a control center, radar and 16 missiles for additional use. The projectiles travel towards the target at blistering speed of 17,000kms an hour.

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India is set to become the second recipient after China in 2014. Kremlin is retiring the S-300 and S-400 to replace them with a more lethal S-500 missile system.

Moscow has recently armed Tehran with an earlier version of a similar integrated air defense system called S-300PMU-2 Favorite. The Persians too have ordered five systems. Saudi Arabia was denied the sale after delivery to Tehran was hindered by UN sanctions.

The S-400 Triumph missile defense system is a significant strategic upgrade in India’s military hardware in its pursuit to become a global power. With little domestic debate and no real threat, Delhi has been arming itself to match the Chinese military might. Though, Russian cooperation with China is at a far advanced level, India’s efforts have borne fruit too. Besides deal for nuclear powered-submarines, both are engaged in joint production of fifth generation T-50 (or PAK-FA) fighter jet, a projected counter weight to US F-22 Raptor.

Over the last decade, India has checkmated Pakistan on the US front. Not only has Islamabad faced various pronounced sanctions but also severe political opposition in Washington over transfer of any sophisticated arms including the F-16s falcons.

While India buys S-400s, its option to acquire upgraded US Patriot systems remains open too. Delhi’s hawkish arms shopping spree includes hyper-sonic missiles or glide vehicles, stealth bombers et al.

Washington will continue to play a fundamental role in fuelling the arms race as part of its ‘Pivot to Asia’ policy, which envisaged China as the next global adversary. Being Beijing’s strategic partner, Islamabad fell out of favour with Washington. Pakistan’s policy makers did not do enough to control the damage, practically giving India a walkover. The odds stacked against the delivery of eight F-16 fighter jets symbolise the current state of Pakistan’s diplomacy in the US.

While China may not fret over the S-400 system deal, it will have significant implications for Pakistan’s Air Force and missile programme both. Highly advanced stealth aircrafts or faster low observable ones or stealth cruise missiles can only dodge the integrated defense system. In the wake of an all out war, Pakistan can outnumber the Indian defense system by launching too many missile and fighter jet attacks, making it near impossible for the S-400s or Akash missiles to deny zero penetration in Indian airspace. Such an attack will come at a heavy price militarily and otherwise, with limited success. If the economy was performing as per potential, Pakistan could follow China’s suit and develop hypersonic multistage missiles.

While the hypothetical scenario goes to show the soaring cost of war for Pakistan on the eastern front, preparedness for any aggression from the Indian side also requires significant increase in defense spending.

More than the technological gulf, Islamabad’s biggest challenge for the next fiscal year will be poor economic policies and repayment of expensive IMF loans. Over the last decade, Pakistan has achieved little success in impressing upon unprecedented militarisation by India, upsetting the balance of power. Over the years, Islamabad’s diplomacy has been failing her successively as the foreign ministry has not only lacked vision but is also damningly slow in reacting to Delhi’s moves. Until Pakistan-India comprehensive dialogue bears fruit, the defense spending may not lessen for the long haul. Over the last decade, the situation has only gone from bad to worse.

Naveed Ahmad
is a Pakistani investigative journalist and academic with extensive reporting experience in the Middle East and North Africa. He is based in Doha and Istanbul. He tweets @naveed360
 
There is only one solution to this and that is to go stealth or atleast get SU-35s.

Off topic: I have few questions here.
1: There is embargo on selling 300+ km range missiles so does this only hold for S2S missile systems? Seeing sale of S-400 to China and now India it seems this embargo does not hold good for SAM system.
2: It is general perception that Nato aircraft can not fire on friendlies due to IFF codes to be same, Is this a fact or just a myth? If true then does this provision holds good for Russian equipment?
3: PAF's basic doctrine is defensive so wud it be advisable to go for equally potent SAM system only?
4: If there is code of conduct for friendly IFF in Russia then wud S-400s be identifying Russian origin aircraft as hostiles when deemed?
 
India pretty much dominated the air space during the Kargil War and this was before getting hundreds of Su-30MKI Air-Superiority fighters and now t the S-400 :pop:

there is pretty much nothing Pakistan can do to beat this conventionally. even the U.S would have a hard time dealing with this and we are the masters of SEADs
 
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There is only one solution to this and that is to go stealth or atleast get SU-35s.

Off topic: I have few questions here.
1: There is embargo on selling 300+ km range missiles so does this only hold for S2S missile systems? Seeing sale of S-400 to China and now India it seems this embargo does not hold good for SAM system.
2: It is general perception that Nato aircraft can not fire on friendlies due to IFF codes to be same, Is this a fact or just a myth? If true then does this provision holds good for Russian equipment?
3: PAF's basic doctrine is defensive so wud it be advisable to go for equally potent SAM system only?
4: If there is code of conduct for friendly IFF in Russia then wud S-400s be identifying Russian origin aircraft as hostiles when deemed?
1. i don't have any idea about it @Quwa may help you in it..
2. yes, it is true. turkish F-16 was trying to shoot Israeli F-16 but it was unable to fire on it.. no russian goodies don't hold that provisions. e.g ukraine-russian war, azerbaijan-armenia war, eritea-ethiopia war etc.
3. paf s..ks don't expect much quicker reaction from them. but PA is on shoping for MR-SAM..
4. India is using is own IFF on her Aircrafts.. and possibly S-400 will get that IFF..
 
India pretty much dominated the air space during the Kargil War and this was before hundreds of Su-30MKI Air-Superiority fighters and now they are getting the S-400 :pop: there is pretty much nothing Pakistan can do even the U.S would have a hard time dealing with this and we are the masters of SEADs

In Kargil they lost several fighter jets even though the PAF was never involved.

As for who is superior, the IAF is one of the worst trained Air Forces in the world. We can handle them.
 
220px-MAR-1_parts.jpg
didnt we already got MAR-1 from brazil ........ s-400 use radiation and this is an anti-radiation missile .... given it doesnt get detroyed before it reaches s-400 ..... its radar cross section is low but i dont know the exact numericals ...... given s-400 can only detect missiles upto rcs of 4 meter square

In Kargil they lost several fighter jets even though the PAF was never involved.
only 2 perheps one crashed and one choppers was shot and one jet was shot

India pretty much dominated the air space during the Kargil War and this was before getting hundreds of Su-30MKI Air-Superiority fighters and now t the S-400 :pop:

there is pretty much nothing Pakistan can do to beat this conventionally. even the U.S would have a hard time dealing with this and we are the masters of SEADs
pakistan not even mobilised its air force in kargill war .......
 
While the hypothetical scenario goes to show the soaring cost of war for Pakistan on the eastern front, preparedness for any aggression from the Indian side also requires significant increase in defense spending.

Thats the idea .. maybe ?

More than the technological gulf, Islamabad’s biggest challenge for the next fiscal year will be poor economic policies and repayment of expensive IMF loans. Over the last decade, Pakistan has achieved little success in impressing upon unprecedented militarisation by India, upsetting the balance of power.

Until Pakistan-India comprehensive dialogue bears fruit, the defense spending may not lessen for the long haul. Over the last decade, the situation has only gone from bad to worse.

This shall never ( be allowed to ) happen given the hold the Military has over decision making in Pakistan
 
India pretty much dominated the air space during the Kargil War and this was before getting hundreds of Su-30MKI Air-Superiority fighters and now t the S-400 :pop:

there is pretty much nothing Pakistan can do to beat this conventionally. even the U.S would have a hard time dealing with this and we are the masters of SEADs
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on topic:

I think there is already a big thread on the challenge the Indian S-400s will pose for PAF:

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan...cape-s-400-senior-indian-mod-official.425573/

oops, that one's locked, was there another one though ? or maybe I'm confusing it with the PAF vs Rafale thread..

carry on here.
 
220px-MAR-1_parts.jpg
didnt we already got MAR-1 from brazil ........ s-400 use radiation and this is an anti-radiation missile .... given it doesnt get detroyed before it reaches s-400 ..... its radar cross section is low but i dont know the exact numericals ...... given s-400 can only detect missiles upto rcs of 4 meter square


only 2 perheps one crashed and one choppers was shot and one jet was shot


pakistan not even mobilised its air force in kargill war .......

No, 2 fighter jets of which only 1 crashed. The other was shot down. Another chopper was also shot down and another crashed.
 
1: There is embargo on selling 300+ km range missiles so does this only hold for S2S missile systems? Seeing sale of S-400 to China and now India it seems this embargo does not hold good for SAM system.
SAM are defensive system`s but your point gave me an idea that since S400 if deployed near border can create No fly zone for us probably this treaty may apply but on the other hand world is free to do what ever specially for India
2: It is general perception that Nato aircraft can not fire on friendlies due to IFF codes to be same, Is this a fact or just a myth? If true then does this provision holds good for Russian equipment?
Nato assets are strongly network centric thru data link ,back channels and other medias ,In case of Export Items many of the sub systems are different for Non Nato Allies .In case of Russian its total customization and concept of Network centicity exists but with different set of mind (For Nato small but integrate force for Russian doctrine more and more) So Export order varies for Russian equipment and the equipment didtn identify Friend or Foe other than integrated ones .
3: PAF's basic doctrine is defensive so wud it be advisable to go for equally potent SAM system only?
My friend you are wrong here ,just because our doctrine suggest we are a force who safeguard its own territory does not mean that we are defensive ,PAF specialized in Bandit interception and also at time of war all squadrons can do both .Long range SAM`s are defensive postures what we need is King of the skies few dedicated Air Superior fighters .
If there is code of conduct for friendly IFF in Russia then wud S-400s be identifying Russian origin aircraft as hostiles when deemed?
Again Answered you in 2nd part
 
ukraine-russian war, azerbaijan-armenia war, eritea-ethiopia war etc
There was no active engagement between Ukraine and Russia as Russia never openly admitted they have move in forces in Ukraine plus Ukraine had gone quite independent of Russian stuff and that is why they took bold move of bid for EU. During recent Nagorno-Karabakh standoff we reportedly didnt see any aerial engagement if any plus this IFF concept employment is for the newer gen aircraft involved in netcentric warfare, it wasnt that pronounced in old and non upgraded ones.
 
1: There is embargo on selling 300+ km range missiles so does this only hold for S2S missile systems? Seeing sale of S-400 to China and now India it seems this embargo does not hold good for SAM system.

This is one point that confuses people a lot. The Missile Technology Control Regime does embargo the sale of missiles with ranges greater then 300+km, as the 40N6 missile does - the only missile of an S-400 system with a range greater then 300km:

0_77154_2c9e42a2_XXXL.jpg


But only if they also carry a payload of 500kg or greater, which none of the S-400's missiles do. It's also mainly for offensive missiles:

The MTCR was created in order to curb the spread of unmanned delivery systems for nuclear weapons, specifically delivery systems that could carry a minimum payload of 500 kg a minimum of 300 km.

So this actually doesn't go against the MTCR, though even if it did, the Russians and Chinese are known for not caring about the repercussions anyway.

2: It is general perception that Nato aircraft can not fire on friendlies due to IFF codes to be same, Is this a fact or just a myth? If true then does this provision holds good for Russian equipment?

It's a myth. There have been blue-on-blue kills before. Good battlefield awareness and coordination keeps NATO forces from targeting each other.
 
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My friend you are wrong here ,just because our doctrine suggest we are a force who safeguard its own territory does not mean that we are defensive ,PAF specialized in Bandit interception and also at time of war all squadrons can do both .Long range SAM`s are defensive postures what we need is King of the skies few dedicated Air Superior fighters .
Sir thats why i used the term basic doctrine but ofcourse PAF had extensively been exercising on offensive manuvers esp during Ex High Mark and Safron Bandit. So what are the aircraft we are looking here which can nullify threat posed by S-400s? Again to go on offensive we need a potent long range SAM system on footings of S-400. Isnt this the case?

he MTCR was created in order to curb the spread of unmanned delivery systems for nuclear weapons, specifically delivery systems that could carry a minimum payload of 500 kg a minimum of 300 km.
That's the main point. Thank U Boss.

didnt we already got MAR-1 from brazil ........ s-400 use radiation and this is an anti-radiation missile .... given it doesnt get detroyed before it reaches s-400 ..... its radar cross section is low but i dont know the exact numericals ...... given s-400 can only detect missiles upto rcs of 4 meter square
To employ anti radiation missile U have to fire it from its lethal range. With range of S-400 as 300+km, the MAR-1 need to be carried near the target by aircraft and to do that it has to keep on dodging S-400s, which reportedly is quite impossible except stealth aircraft.
 
Sir thats why i used the term basic doctrine but ofcourse PAF had extensively been exercising on offensive manuvers esp during Ex High Mark and Safron Bandit. So what are the aircraft we are looking here which can nullify threat posed by S-400s? Again to go on offensive we need a potent long range SAM system on footings of S-400. Isnt this the case?


That's the main point. Thank U Boss.


To employ anti radiation missile U have to fire it from its lethal range. With range of S-400 as 300+km, the MAR-1 need to be carried near the target by aircraft and to do that it has to keep on dodging S-400s, which reportedly is quite impossible except stealth aircraft.
does stealthy counts ..... i've heard thats what blk 3 is going to be
 
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What is your definition of several ? If I am not wrong they brought hell on your soldiers who crossed to capture Kargil.

They lost 1,600 soldiers whilst we lost 400 soldiers. Not only that, but they had deployed 30,000 troops against our 5,000 troops and they still could not make us budge. They also had complete and total air superiority, we didn't even deploy our Air Force.

We only left Kargil because of international pressure.
 
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