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India to base first squadron of Rafale fighter jets in Bengal

Few Rafale just for showcase, can't do any favor against China.

Actually its the terrain which will not allow a show of full force. Otherwise for a border skirmish that is more likely to happen require only a few jets. These are more for defense than offense.
 
All the reasons given before and including Hitenray's above
are valid ... that is the beauty of owning an omnirole fighter.
You cannot deduce the use of the Rafale from its location
unless you deduct some of its capabilities. The only one that
comes to mind is the nuclear element which Indian Raffys will
not have, at least not for a while.

Which brings us to weapons.
I have not had a for public class item yet and it's likely we won't
get one until after the offsets are finalized and announced.
AASM and Israëli products are question marks, esp. HMCS as
you well know and Meteor a given. The scope of the development
part of the deal points out to a couple existing IAF weapons being
integrated IMHoO.

And don't try to make sense of the 36 ( 54 ) number; it doesn't! 8-)




Ah, a discussion by pros based on factual knowledge ...

F-16 and F-18 were found inferior to Rafale by the IAF in
the MMRCA evaluation.
A recent exercise of the best the West has to offer gathered
Typhoons, Raptors and Raffys, even though Falcons and SHornets were available?
A Rafale beats a SHornet or an MKI on load while smaller
than the former and much smaller than the latter thereby
obtaining RCS [ S as in size? ] reduction physically before
even mentioning RAM, shape or Spectra?
The only suppa Super Hornet that has added value is the
Growler and America ain't offerin' those at the convenience store.

I understand that few people on fora are bothered by facts
( nor is DJT ) but underestimating an opponent because bias
clouded your judgement is a wrong way to defend Pakistan.


Or any nation one hails from, Tay.
i thought e f18 was out of the question. lm is offering the f16 and saab, the gripen for the single engined fighter tender.

honestly im kinda surprised were not lobbying the typhoon, but then again it probably blew them away. :P
 
Ah, a discussion by pros based on factual knowledge ...

F-16 and F-18 were found inferior to Rafale by the IAF in
the MMRCA evaluation.
A recent exercise of the best the West has to offer gathered
Typhoons, Raptors and Raffys, even though Falcons and SHornets were available?
A Rafale beats a SHornet or an MKI on load while smaller
than the former and much smaller than the latter thereby
obtaining RCS [ S as in size? ] reduction physically before
even mentioning RAM, shape or Spectra?
The only suppa Super Hornet that has added value is the
Growler and America ain't offerin' those at the convenience store.

I understand that few people on fora are bothered by facts
( nor is DJT ) but underestimating an opponent because bias
clouded your judgement is a wrong way to defend Pakistan.


Or any nation one hails from, Tay.

I'm not just talking about which plane has better specs, I'm talking about the overall deal.

The F-16, compared to other fighters, is easy to fly which is good for a poorly trained Air Force like the IAF. India could also have gotten them in larger numbers as well as local production. A big opportunity that was missed (although there is talks of re-negotiations).

The F-18 would have been better simply because France really ripped India off. You can't just buy things based on what's the best, you have to factor cost. 18 Rafales are hardly going to give India an edge over China or Pakistan, but 36 or even 72 F-16's/F-18's could have.

After seeing Pakistan's experience with the US, it is always better to go with the French for a western fighter or go with the Russians. US is well known for using countries for it's own geo-political interests and may ditch anytime they're done with it. What if US stops supplying spares or new fighter jets when things aren't as good as they are now.

The US isn't the best country to go for, but France clearly ripped India off. The price India paid for a measly amount of fighters that will make an insignificant difference in war is huge. India should have gone for something else. Lockheed Martin was (and still is BTW) offering to make F-16's in India. That's a much better deal than what Dassault is offering.
 
All the reasons given before and including Hitenray's above
are valid ... that is the beauty of owning an omnirole fighter.
You cannot dwhethe use of the Rafale from its location
unless you deduct some of its capabilities. The only one that
comes to mind is the nuclear element which Indian Raffys will
not have, at least not for a while.

Which brings us to weapons.
I have not had a for public class item yet and it's likely we won't
get one until after the offsets are finalized and announced.
AASM and Israëli products are question marks, esp. HMCS as
you well know and Meteor a given. The scope of the development
part of the deal points out to a couple existing IAF weapons being
integrated IMHoO.

And don't try to make sense of the 36 ( 54 ) number; it doesn't! 8-)




Ah, a discussion by pros based on factual knowledge ...

F-16 and F-18 were found inferior to Rafale by the IAF in
the MMRCA evaluation.
A recent exercise of the best the West has to offer gathered
Typhoons, Raptors and Raffys, even though Falcons and SHornets were available?
A Rafale beats a SHornet or an MKI on load while smaller
than the former and much smaller than the latter thereby
obtaining RCS [ S as in size? ] reduction physically before
even mentioning RAM, shape or Spectra?
The only suppa Super Hornet that has added value is the
Growler and America ain't offerin' those at the convenience store.

I understand that few people on fora are bothered by facts
( nor is DJT ) but underestimating an opponent because bias
clouded your judgement is a wrong way to defend Pakistan.


Or any nation one hails from, Tay.

Further most of the fan boys fail to understand the present deal.

A large portion of the deal was about setting up 3 dedicated air bases [one of which currently only a landing strip] , Spares, Service Contracts , India Specific Upgrades to Rafale especially Engine , Weapons , Guided Munitions , Training , etc. All this while putting a big portion back into India.

People fail to see that the fly away cost of a Rafale Air Frame is less than 90 million USD.
 
Rafale is a 4.5 generation aircraft but as soon as it starts flying on indian fuel it will ultimately become 6th generation aircraft and the whole world will hear the big news from any intelligent indian minister. I had my bet on Manohar Parrikar.
 
I'm not just talking about which plane has better specs, I'm talking about the overall deal.

The F-16, compared to other fighters, is easy to fly which is good for a poorly trained Air Force like the IAF. India could also have gotten them in larger numbers as well as local production. A big opportunity that was missed (although there is talks of re-negotiations).

The F-18 would have been better simply because France really ripped India off. You can't just buy things based on what's the best, you have to factor cost. 18 Rafales are hardly going to give India an edge over China or Pakistan, but 36 or even 72 F-16's/F-18's could have.



The US isn't the best country to go for, but France clearly ripped India off. The price India paid for a measly amount of fighters that will make an insignificant difference in war is huge. India should have gone for something else. Lockheed Martin was (and still is BTW) offering to make F-16's in India. That's a much better deal than what Dassault is offering.


India has brought 36 rafales not 18

And 36 rafales can wipe the floor with 72 f16 any day of the week.

If 36,rafales are measley that what will 18block 52;do to nearly three hundred brand. New su30mki straight off the Indian production lines
 
Rafale is a 4.5 generation aircraft but as soon as it starts flying on indian fuel it will ultimately become 6th generation aircraft and the whole world will hear the big news from any intelligent indian minister. I had my bet on Manohar Parrikar.
If you have nothing constructive to say atleast don't derail the thread and bring down the quality of your own forum!
 
I'm not just talking about which plane has better specs, I'm talking about the overall deal.

The F-16, compared to other fighters, is easy to fly which is good for a poorly trained Air Force like the IAF. India could also have gotten them in larger numbers as well as local production. A big opportunity that was missed (although there is talks of re-negotiations).

The F-18 would have been better simply because France really ripped India off. You can't just buy things based on what's the best, you have to factor cost. 18 Rafales are hardly going to give India an edge over China or Pakistan, but 36 or even 72 F-16's/F-18's could have.



The US isn't the best country to go for, but France clearly ripped India off. The price India paid for a measly amount of fighters that will make an insignificant difference in war is huge. India should have gone for something else. Lockheed Martin was (and still is BTW) offering to make F-16's in India. That's a much better deal than what Dassault is offering.
Wow poorly trained airforce like the IAF. So your blind hatred for India made it a poorly trained Air Force. What are you gonna say next, one Pakistani F-16 will be taking out a squadron of our MKIs!!

Coming to the Rafale saga, what most outsiders feel is the French ripped us off, but you just don't see the offsets coming in, the % of that money that is being reinvested in India, French helping us build engine tech (Kaveri GTX) which is the most complex part in a fighter jet where even the Chinese are struggling with. So going with the Rafale has always been the best option rather than any American jet which comes with a lot of strings attached or the Eurofighter where lots of countries are involved and even if one country is pissed out, there would be an uncertain future in the supply of spares. IAF also has tremedous experience operating the Mirage 2000s so it would be easier to get acclimated to the Rafale where as PAF pilots are well versed with F-16s, so for the coming decade if there is ever a confrontation, IAF pilots will have an upper hand with the F-16 Blk-70 in BVR combat but PAF pilots will definitely have the upper hand when it comes to WVR combat because of their experience and they know the Falcons in and out.
 
Wow poorly trained airforce like the IAF. So your blind hatred for India made it a poorly trained Air Force. What are you gonna say next, one Pakistani F-16 will be taking out a squadron of our MKIs!!

Coming to the Rafale saga, what most outsiders feel is the French ripped us off, but you just don't see the offsets coming in, the % of that money that is being reinvested in India, French helping us build engine tech (Kaveri GTX) which is the most complex part in a fighter jet where even the Chinese are struggling with. So going with the Rafale has always been the best option rather than any American jet which comes with a lot of strings attached or the Eurofighter where lots of countries are involved and even if one country is pissed out, there would be an uncertain future in the supply of spares. IAF also has tremedous experience operating the Mirage 2000s so it would be easier to get acclimated to the Rafale where as PAF pilots are well versed with F-16s, so for the coming decade if there is ever a confrontation, IAF pilots will have an upper hand with the F-16 Blk-70 in BVR combat but PAF pilots will definitely have the upper hand when it comes to WVR combat because of their experience and they know the Falcons in and out.

It's not hatred, it's fact. The IAF has the highest crash rate in the world among Air Forces.

You can make as many excuses as you want, India got ripped off.

India has brought 36 rafales not 18

And 36 rafales can wipe the floor with 72 f16 any day of the week.

If 36,rafales are measley that what will 18block 52;do to nearly three hundred brand. New su30mki straight off the Indian production lines

:lol:

You just bought the damn things where as we know our F-16's like the back of our hands. Secondly, your Air Force is poorly trained and has displayed this with it's highest crash rate among Air Forces and less than stellar performance in conflicts. So no, your Rafales won't wipe the floor with our F-16's.

Our Air Force is more than capable of defending itself from the likes of a poorly trained Air Force like the IAF.
 
It's not hatred, it's fact. The IAF has the highest crash rate in the world among Air Forces.

You can make as many excuses as you want, India got ripped off.

Son,

I have Two Pictures for you :

#1. The Rafale Reality :

124-1.jpg



#2. Pakistan's Reality ( Sorry.. I mean thats the best these Coward IA and "Poorly Trained" IAF could do.. )

Ps7-80.JPG
 
No matter what you all say IAF is trying to secure Raffay from Pakistani missile strikes. They don't want those $8 billion destroyed on the runway or while standing in the hangers. They don't need Raffy for the Bangali's it not strategical and there can be one more point to this. As of China's presence in south China sea they needed them there but the distance is too long even with mid air refueling, unless they use the only old piece of Air ship carrier they have. but in that case the carrier need to be upgraded and India is not moving on the path of upgrading the carrier so Missiles are the threat they seem to be avoiding from currently.
 
:lol:

You just bought the damn things where as we know our F-16's like the back of our hands. Secondly, your air force is poorly trained

Our Air Force is more than capable of defending itself from the likes of a poorly trained Air Force like the IAF.


Indian air force is far better trained and far better equipped than PAF that is not a fiction its a fact

The reason it is known fact is because for ten years running IAF has trained with USA French and RAF pitchimg the MKI against F15/F16 Typhoon & Rafale

There is a permanent base of F16/52 in india for DACT from singpore.

The amount of time money and man hours spent training by india THE PAKISTANIS can never ever match because they just cant afford the fuel the training ammo the cost of flying annualy overseas.

Indian training budget is probably 5 fold that of a Pakistani

your f16 are so close to end of their usful flyimg hours of 6000 hours you are barely flyinmg them in traning.

they are almost 3 decades old.

You canot afford a modern system like rafale so you go hunting for used falcons from USA OR Jordan etc.

So please spare us the bravado we are well aware of PAF ability and its huge coinstraints
 
If you have nothing constructive to say atleast don't derail the thread and bring down the quality of your own forum!
Actually he just 2 days ago called TEJAS stealth aircraft and without any doubt RAFALE is then 5.5 or 6th generation aircraft.
 
Indian air force is far better trained and far better equipped than PAF that is not a fiction its a fact

The reason it is known fact is because for ten years running IAF has trained with USA French and RAF pitchimg the MKI against F15/F16 Typhoon & Rafale

There is a permanent base of F16/52 in india for DACT from singpore.

The amount of time money and man hours spent training by india THE PAKISTANIS can never ever match because they just cant afford the fuel the training ammo the cost of flying annualy overseas.

Indian training budget is probably 5 fold that of a Pakistani

your f16 are so close to end of their usful flyimg hours of 6000 hours you are barely flyinmg them in traning.

they are almost 3 decades old.

You canot afford a modern system like rafale so you go hunting for used falcons from USA OR Jordan etc.

So please spare us the bravado we are well aware of PAF ability and its huge coinstraints
really. no matter what you say PAF record has always been better w.r.t. kill ratio. IAF is also a good airforce but PAF pilots are more tougher and better trained. Many of them even trained alongside wester airforces. And for IAF exercises with other countries. PAF pilots training school in sarghoda is considered more better than even US top gun around the world. Here are few neutral views on PAF training and skills. War performances not included as I donot want another debate.

Article in the May 1993 issue (pages 46-47 by Sergey Vekhov)
An article in the May 1993 issue (pages 46-47) of Airforces Monthly, a reputable UK-based air defence magazine, written by a Russian aviation writer, Sergey Vekhov, for the first time in public, provided a first-hand account about the PAF's pilots:

"As an air defence analyst, I am fully aware that the Pakistan Air Force ranks today as one of the best air forces in the world and that the PAF Combat Commanders' School (CCS) in Sargodha has been ranked as the best GCI/pilot and fighter tactics and weapons school in the world". As one senior US defence analyst commented to me in 1997, "it leaves Topgun (the US Naval Air Station in Miramar, California) far behind".


Jane's International Defense (June 24, 1998)

The PAF, although outnumbered by IAF, has at least one qualitative edge over its rival: Pilot Training. The caliber of Pakistani instructors is acknowledged by numerous air forces, and US Navy pilots considered them to be highly 'professionals' during exercises flying off the USS Constellation (as co-pilots).


Every Man A Tiger:

"Iraqi pilot training came from three sources: France, Pakistan and the former Soviet Union. Lucky for us, Soviet training proved dominant, with their emphisis on rigid rules,strict command arrangements and standardized tactics. Coupled with this centralized
approach, the Soviets were suspicious of non- Russians and disliked Arabs. The Iraqi students were taught to take off and land their aircrafts safely, but otherwise their training was so basic, so lacking in advanced tactics, as to be useless. There was however a wild card. Not all Iraqi training came from the Russians.
Iraqi pilots, were trained well by their French and Pakistani instructors. Pakistan has one of the best, most combat ready airforces in the world. They have to; their neighbour to the east is huge, and the two nations, have a long history of hostilities. For Indian war planners, the Pakistan air Force is their worst fear. Pakistani pilots are respected throughout the world, especially the Islamic world, because they know how to fly and fight.
On one or two occasions, I had the opportunity to talk with Pakistani instructor pilots, who had served in Iraq. These discussions, didn't give me great cause to worry. The Russian domination of training prevented the Pakistanis from having any real influence on the Iraqi aircrew training program.
Still, there had to be a few Iraqi pilots, who had observed and listened to their mentors from France and Pakistan and the useless guidance of their inept leaders. It was those few, I was concerned about - the ones with great situational awareness and good eyesight, who had figured out how to effectively use their aircrafts and its weapons to defend their nation."
(General Chuck Horner (retd) and Tom Clancey. General Chuck commanded the US and allied air assets during Desert shield and desert storm, and was responsible for the design and execution of one of the most devestating air campaigns in the history. He also served as Commander 9th Air Force, Commander US Central Command Air Forces, and Commander in chief, SpaceCom. Book: Every Man A Tiger).

"Another way in which the PAF satisfies this requirement is in the pursuit of excellence with regard to its combat echelons. Paradoxically, though, that pursuit is by its very nature an expensive procedure and there is a high wastage rate as pilots progress through the training system, with individuals being weeded out all the way along the line. The end result is felt to be well worth the expense involved, however, and personal observations have certainly convinced the author that the average PAF pilot is almost certainly possessed of superior skills when compared with, say, an average American pilot. As to those , who are rated above average, they compare favourably to the very best in a host of western air arms. Standard of accuracy appear comparable to those of the west and may surpass them, one F-6 pilot of No. 15 Squadron having recently put 20 out of 25 shells through a banner in four successive passes. The author can vouch for this having inspected the banner at Kamra and even more remarkably, the pilot responsible for this impressive shooting was a 'frst tourist'."
(Lindsay Peacock. Journal: Air International, Vol 41. No 5)


Pakistan's Professionals:

"Overall the PAF are a highly professional air force and this is reflected in their high standards of instructions and flying training."
(Steve Bond commenting about PAF's flying training program. Journal: Air Forces Monthly, May 1990.)
 

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