No money trail of Sharif's London flats: Supreme Court

Farah Sohail · Dec 3, 2016

The Eagle said:
SR petition is totally different than PTI plea in the matter. Also, SR tried to warn IK through different words in different times for PTI's benefit but IK missed the drift however, SR plea is simple for Sadiq & Amin thing to disqualify the PM and has nothing to do in Panama Probe.

Interesting Times ahead....... note another one now... PTI planned to move an application to disqualify SS as well and it is not about disqualification alone but there is something bigger due to which an application against SS.. You will understand if you look closely the pattern.

Yes, PTI plans to more petition against SS too...something bigger? I heard its about al toufiq case.... Agar dono bhai..disqualify ho jayein...tu maza hi jaaye..but dont think our legal system is tht much mature or effective yet... Ke dono bhaiyyon ko disqualify kar de... Nawaz sharif hi hojaye tu bari baat hai

Dawood Ibrahim · Dec 3, 2016

AFA i see @Farah Sohail SC Should stop this soap opera series and give a decision no need to take it to another episode @PakSword

Farah Sohail · Dec 3, 2016

Doordie said:
AFA i see @Farah Sohail SC Should stop this soap opera series and give a decision no need to take it to another episode @PakSword

Lolll... Really it has become a soap opera... SC should conclude and give its decision at the earliest.. Agar judicial commission bananay ka itna hi shouq hai, tu JI ki petition par alag se bana dein...but IK and Sheikh Rashid petition should be heard by this bench only....no need of judicial commission there

The Eagle · Dec 3, 2016

Farah Sohail said:
something bigger?

Well, in other words, it's like counter counter measure. You will understand soon.

Farah Sohail said:
but dont think our legal system is tht much mature or effective yet..

This is not about system totally but also depends how parties peruse the matter. Until & unless complainant is not incompetent to establish the case, alleged absconder cannot escape but it has been happening due to negligence of one's advocacy that we can see most of the times, accused walk away due to lacuna on Technical grounds not the merits. As much as complainant side done it's part on the basis of merit and being the friend of the Court for justice, we will see good things happening as Court cannot do the job of the parties at all.

IMO, this time, A party does holds more tricks as well unlike past. .... SS chapter is like preparedness in advance to limit SOMETHING that I will hold here. All in all, it depends on the practice now by not giving a chance or leaving a loophole.

Emmie · Dec 3, 2016

Farah Sohail said:
On topic: Why is JI admanant on making judicial comission, which will only delay the case and make it more complicated? Nawaz sharif can simply be disqualified on basis of article 62,63.. Now JI has submitted another petition/request in this case in SC to form a judicial commission.... Do they want to help PM Nawaz Sharif by this?

Notion that JI wants to help NS is far fetched I reckon, had it been the case it wouldn't have filed the petition in first place, stance like that of PPP would have served the purpose. Reason behind plea for JC to me seems to be the stance JI maintains on Panama scam, accountability of everyone named in scam. But parties like JI can do anything, you never know, it has helped NS multiple times in this very term. Anyway, if it weren't for IK, JI never would have made it to SC on panama scam, reality! Given history of JCs reports it should be best avoided, even if one is made by SC itself.

Verve said:
"In Oct 2008, Deutsche Bank (Suisse) SA certified a “cross collateralised”loan of adult to GBP 7 million —GBP 3.5 million to Coomber Group Inc (BVI) and GBP 1.75 million any to Nescol and Nielson —against a 4 Avenfield House titles. Earlier, in June 2007, Sharif’s elder son Hussain and daughter Mariam sealed a debt agreement for Coomber Group Inc.

Following queries from a Financial Investigation Agency in 2012, MF invoked a Anti-Money Laundering and Terrorist Financing Code of Practice (2008) to griddle Minerva for information about Nescol and Nielson. In Jun 2012, Minerva Trust Corporate Services Ltd suggested that both companies “owned a UK scold each” —16 and 17 Avenfield House —and were “owned by a same profitable owners Mariam Safdar”."

Going by this, Coomber Group Inc must have been formed before June 2007 .... another site has a registered on date of 29 September so that may be 2006?

I think on that particular date an agreement was signed, one between bank and beneficial owners. It has no relevance to the date on which Coomber was incorporated.

PakSword · Dec 3, 2016

Farah Sohail said:
On topic: Why is JI admanant on making judicial comission, which will only delay the case and make it more complicated? Nawaz sharif can simply be disqualified on basis of article 62,63.. Now JI has submitted another petition/request in this case in SC to form a judicial commission.... Do they want go help PM Nawaz Sharif by this?

@Doordie @Emmie @PakSword @The Eagle

Me too still unable to understand JI's role...

I asked someone who has contacts in JI. He told me that JI considers that if PM gets a clean chit, most likely everyone will also get the clean chit. Cases against all others will lose effectiveness.

On the other hand, if we start accountability of everyone simultaneously, some people will get punished. In this case, SC will feel pressure on shareef case as well.

But this logic, I just couldn't digest..

Emmie · Dec 3, 2016

PakSword said:
Me too still unable to understand JI's role...

I asked someone who has contacts in JI. He told me that JI considers that if PM gets a clean chit, most likely everyone will also get the clean chit. Cases against all others will lose effectiveness.

On the other hand, if we start accountability of everyone simultaneously, some people will get punished. In this case, SC will feel pressure on shareef case as well.

But this logic, I just couldn't digest..

Weird logic! Someone should ask Siraj to point out one single conviction ever made on the basis of JC report. If NS escapes everyone else shall escape, jurisprudence is on finger tips of lawyers. JC is one of the options, not the only option, SC has already made it clear -- considering court's proceedings, unless some expediency shows up SC won't give a wooden nickle to JI latest petition.

PakSword · Dec 3, 2016

Doordie said:
AFA i see @Farah Sohail SC Should stop this soap opera series and give a decision no need to take it to another episode @PakSword

Lolz..

Finer · Dec 4, 2016

Doordie said:
AFA i see @Farah Sohail SC Should stop this soap opera series and give a decision no need to take it to another episode @PakSword

Farah Sohail said:
Lolll... Really it has become a soap opera... SC should conclude and give its decision at the earliest.. Agar judicial commission bananay ka itna hi shouq hai, tu JI ki petition par alag se bana dein...but IK and Sheikh Rashid petition should be heard by this bench only....no need of judicial commission there

To you both. I cannot believe i am saying this. As long as this case goes on, there is still chance just in case if there is last minutes of discovery evidence comes up or some miracle happen overnight. Once the case is decided, that is it.

It is better if the case goes slowly for the benefit of prosecutors to buy more time to build arguably good case against PMLN.

Dawood Ibrahim · Dec 4, 2016

No need of suspense lol

got fed up

Fallen King said:
To you both. I cannot believe i am saying this. As long as this case goes on, there is still chance just in case if there is last minutes of discovery evidence comes up or some miracle happen overnight. Once the case is decided, that is it.

It is better if the case goes slowly for the benefit of prosecutors to buy more time to build arguably good case against PMLN.

And to you sir i can't believe im say but bring a 5 year old and he will give a decision. Please use your brain don't make This a turtle (NS) and rabbit (IK) race which we use to read in which the trutle wins. So let this case finish soon as possible and we will know where of SC justice stands

PakSword · Dec 4, 2016

Fallen King said:
To you both. I cannot believe i am saying this. As long as this case goes on, there is still chance just in case if there is last minutes of discovery evidence comes up or some miracle happen overnight. Once the case is decided, that is it.

It is better if the case goes slowly for the benefit of prosecutors to buy more time to build arguably good case against PMLN.

Don't know which evidences are left. The case is good against PMs children unless they bring something extraordinary. Judges remarks against a random letter from Qatar were very enlightening. In the presence of court decree, that mentions the attachment of same properties to a defaulted loan in 1999 that Qatari says he owned till 2006, his letter is no more than a piece of paper. There is so much information missing in the letter as pointed out by SC.

They further remarked that the there is no sync between any of the statements of family, whether submitted in court, on the floor of parliament, on TV etc etc. They questioned the age in which PMs children were able to buy all this property.

I think the case of PMs children is extremely weak, unless they bring something that transfers the burden of proof again on PTI.

I usually read your comments, and understand that you still think that the burden of proof is on PTI, despite knowing that in money laundering and corruption cases, as per the NAB and AML ordinances/ acts in Pakistan and many other countries, it the the accused who has to prove that the money was earned through legit means. Imagine I drive corolla, pay 10,000 rupees per month towards income tax, and one day I rob a bank and then buy a Ferrari. My neighbors whose lockers were in the same bank and they have lost some precious items will definitely inform police that there is an unusual change in my circumstances after bank robbery. What will police do? Ask me from where I have earned so much and investigate, or ask the neighbors to bring proof themselves?

Anyway, the case is still going against Mian Shareef and his grand children. NS has taken himself out of all this very cleverly. This is where MNS can get clean chit, because he is nowhere to be seen till now. PTI needs to bring something that makes MNS, his wife, or his dependent daughter owner of the said flats to get PM and his daughter disqualified.

Dawood Ibrahim · Dec 4, 2016

PakSword said:
Don't know which evidences are left. The case is good against PMs children unless they bring something extraordinary. Judges remarks against a random letter from Qatar were very enlightening. In the presence of court decree, that mentions the attachment of same properties to a defaulted loan in 1999 that Qatari says he owned till 2006, his letter is no more than a piece of paper. There is so much information missing in the letter as pointed out by SC.

They further remarked that the there is no sync between any of the statements of family, whether submitted in court, on the floor of parliament, on TV etc etc. They questioned the age in which PMs children were able to buy all this property.

I think the case of PMs children is extremely weak, unless they bring something that transfers the burden of proof again on PTI.

I usually read your comments, and understand that you still think that the burden of proof is on PTI, despite knowing that in money laundering and corruption cases, as per the NAB and AML ordinances/ acts in Pakistan and many other countries, it the the accused who has to prove that the money was earned through legit means. Imagine I drive corolla, pay 10,000 rupees per month towards income tax, and one day I rob a bank and then buy a Ferrari. My neighbors whose lockers were in the same bank and they have lost some precious items will definitely inform police that there is an unusual change in my circumstances after bank robbery. What will police do? Ask me from where I have earned so much and investigate, or ask the neighbors to bring proof themselves?

Anyway, the case is still going against Mian Shareef and his grand children. NS has taken himself out of all this very cleverly. This is where MNS can get clean chit, because he is nowhere to be seen till now. PTI needs to bring something that makes MNS, his wife, or his dependent daughter owner of the said flats to get PM and his daughter disqualified.

Brother The evidence are high as mountain and justice is one shy away of winning so let that decision come soon for I can't bear this corrupt cooperation families and their Actions

mr.robot · Dec 4, 2016

Fallen King said:
To you both. I cannot believe i am saying this. As long as this case goes on, there is still chance just in case if there is last minutes of discovery evidence comes up or some miracle happen overnight. Once the case is decided, that is it.

It is better if the case goes slowly for the benefit of prosecutors to buy more time to build arguably good case against PMLN.

It is not adverserial proceeding.

“No supportive document has been submitted to establish the ownership of Minerva. Why this information is being hidden from the bench,” Justice Azmat remarked. The judge also observed that the bench was conducting the inquisitorial proceedings in this matter.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1249948/panamagate-hearing-third-offshore-company-sharifs-crops/

PakSword · Dec 4, 2016

Doordie said:
Brother The evidence are high as mountain and justice is one shy away of winning so let that decision come soon for I can't bear this corrupt cooperation families and their Actions

Bro, I don't have words to explain, we all (including the PMLN supporters) know that NSs family is corrupt, but when it comes to Imran Khan and his bani gala property, the same PMLN supporters give comments as if they know the law in depth. They try to find difference in per square feet price of bani gala property. They question gifted property from wife to husband and husband to wife. They question settlement between husband and wife during divorce proceedings. When it comes to NS and his family, same people start saying "PROVE IT IN COURT". Hypocrites.

Finer · Dec 4, 2016

Doordie said:
No need of suspense lol got fed up

And to you sir i can't believe im say but bring a 5 year old and he will give a decision. Please use your brain don't make This a turtle (NS) and rabbit (IK) race which we use to read in which the trutle wins. So let this case finish soon as possible and we will know where of SC justice stands

The reason the court hasn't been able to adjourned its ruling because the case is still going on which suggests there hasn't been concrete enough enough to determine the outcome of the case. By rushing the process of the court, you are asking the court to let PMLN off the hook by adjourning based on the current state of the case.

Regardless of the court's decision, PTI will never accept the decision either way.

PakSword said:
Don't know which evidences are left. The case is good against PMs children unless they bring something extraordinary. Judges remarks against a random letter from Qatar were very enlightening. In the presence of court decree, that mentions the attachment of same properties to a defaulted loan in 1999 that Qatari says he owned till 2006, his letter is no more than a piece of paper. There is so much information missing in the letter as pointed out by SC.

They further remarked that the there is no sync between any of the statements of family, whether submitted in court, on the floor of parliament, on TV etc etc. They questioned the age in which PMs children were able to buy all this property.

I think the case of PMs children is extremely weak, unless they bring something that transfers the burden of proof again on PTI.

That is called weak case, not evidence. Despite of weak substances, the court still rules in the favor of the defendant, and even in the case of embezzlement. That's why the case needs extremely strong evidence to determine the outcome of the case because it is matter of life and death or better yet, life imprisonment for the defendant. That's why the benefit of doubt always goes to the defendant despite of weak substances as long as the prosecutors fail to bring concrete evidence that cannot be deniable.

I usually read your comments, and understand that you still think that the burden of proof is on PTI, despite knowing that in money laundering and corruption cases, as per the NAB and AML ordinances/ acts in Pakistan and many other countries, it the the accused who has to prove that the money was earned through legit means. Imagine I drive corolla, pay 10,000 rupees per month towards income tax, and one day I rob a bank and then buy a Ferrari. My neighbors whose lockers were in the same bank and they have lost some precious items will definitely inform police that there is an unusual change in my circumstances after bank robbery. What will police do? Ask me from where I have earned so much and investigate, or ask the neighbors to bring proof themselves?

Anyway, the case is still going against Mian Shareef and his grand children. NS has taken himself out of all this very cleverly. This is where MNS can get clean chit, because he is nowhere to be seen till now. PTI needs to bring something that makes MNS, his wife, or his dependent daughter owner of the said flats to get PM and his daughter disqualified.

I have said about this umpteenth time already. If the case if still weak, even from the defendant side, the court will still adjourn its ruling in the favor of defendant because it is matter of life-n-death or better yet, life imprisonment for the defendant; prosecutors are recommended to bring real concrete evidence that cannot be deniable. That is same in everywhere in the whole world except Imranistan world apparently.

Precisely for the same reason why Imran Khan is not disqualified from the constitution for democratic election to the government whether it is provincial or federal. #benefit of doubt

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No money trail of Sharif's London flats: Supreme Court

Farah Sohail

SENIOR MEMBER

Dawood Ibrahim

SENIOR MEMBER

Farah Sohail

SENIOR MEMBER

The Eagle

SENIOR MODERATOR

Emmie

RETIRED MOD

PakSword

MODERATOR

Emmie

RETIRED MOD

PakSword

MODERATOR

Finer

SENIOR MEMBER

Dawood Ibrahim

SENIOR MEMBER

PakSword

MODERATOR

Dawood Ibrahim

SENIOR MEMBER

mr.robot

FULL MEMBER

PakSword

MODERATOR

Finer

SENIOR MEMBER

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