Dutch far-right party says it will ban Mosques, Quran

Vergennes said:

brits are appeasing

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Disagree "mon amie". Do not mix a liberal tradition and rule of law that has taken 1,000 years to evolve embedded within English Common Law with appeasment.

Vergennes said:

allowing all kind of veils

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Freedom can be b*tch. It often means having to put up with what you hate so that you can do what you want. When you begin legislating it, it often can come and bite your own posterior.

Vergennes said:

allowing hate preachers

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Very valid point. 10/10. However I believe this was done over the last two decades as a consequence of foreign policy determinants. For example it is now coming out that police wanted to arrest Anjem Chaudry but did not because inteligence service overruled them. Also lot of these hate preachers ran away from Syria and other Arab countries that UK was opposed to. Therefore it was kind of my "enemies enemy is a friend". The fallacy of this has begun to be now realized. That is why Omar Bakri was deported. The problem was back in 1980s Islamists were viewed as assets by British (as well as others) establishment.

Vergennes said:

not revealing mass crimes for fear of being called as racists

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Poppycock. This is another of those far right mantra but does not bear any real life scrutiny. The chance of coloured or Muslim and that includes the Indian's unless they use plenty of white wash being pulled over by Police is far, far greater than a white person. This is fact. On the other hand we are expected to believe that those same cops will not arrest a Muslim who is buggering a minor because they are "too scared". Give me a break. Of course the same cops don't show any hesitation or political corectness when they pull over coloured drivers. This utterly blows the stupid argument propunded by the far right. More of this in some other thread.

Now let me deal with .......

UKBengali said:

reasoning

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Well let us look at some facts first.

*There are far more Muslims in France then UK. Some observers place them at 10% whereas in UK it is probably 4%.
*The French Muslims are more homogenous as most are Arabs from Algeria, Marocco, Tunisia etc
* Being Arabs and Muslims provides two skates to the Middle Eastern furnace. That is the problems in Middle East, like Israel, Western intervention in say Libyia, Syria, Iraq or before Lebanon. Events in Gaza reverbrate with the French Muslims at twice the frequency. They are Arabs ( like Palestinians ) they are Muslims ( like Palestinians) and this doubly amplifies the impact. Whereas most Muslims in UK have little to almost nothing to relate to the Middle East. Why not look at your grandmother and see how much of her dress code, culture and habits had anything to do with Middle East.

In conclusiuon. The French Muslims are the very same people who are in the vortex of the events in Middle East. Therefore what happens in Tripili, Tartus, Latakia, Gaza is going to have profound, close, and up personal effect in some arrondissements in Paris. Algeria and other sources of Frances Muslims are so close to France as to have a Irish/British reflex about it.

And finally Britain left her colonies whence the migrants Muslims came from ( which are far more distant) in relative peace whereas when the Fench left Algeria it was after years of bloody war. Some of that historical angst must still run in the minds of the French Muslims.Therefore comparison of the Muslims of France and UK is like apples and oranges. Entirely diffeant dynamic. Considering the extreme challanges of history and regional geopolitics I think the French have done a good job.

I hope that helps ...

Nilgiri said:

Sorry a famine would need years of that along with many other things going wrong. You don't seem to know how the FCI and godown system works....not to mention how fuel rations and buffer stocks would be rationed immediately....just like in any other major country.

Yes the impact would be very negative esp if allowed to persist (and it wont because someone's going to invade the KSA pretty quickly and open the oil taps)....but it wont cause a famine which needs sustained policy effort to create (like say in the great leap forward in China).

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Not exporting Oil to India would create a budget hole in exporting countries. 60% of oil import comes from arab and rest 40% from south america & african countries. It will become expensive but not unmanageable. May be trading for russian oil from japan might benefit.

Of course there are other things like oil refineries tuned to refine light oil. But once changes are made there is no going back. Those who impose the sanctions have to lick their wounds as India will altogether stop importing from them. Which will lead to price decrease in turn. Any one who wants to shoot in their own foot can do that.

Vergennes said:

Ok,you have a woman that was already warned by police officers that she shouldn't wear such things. She came back,defied the local laws,and was given two choices. Either to pay a fine and leave the beach. Or Pay a fine,can stay on the beach unless she takes it off. It was her personal choice,nobody was cheering and no,she wasn't threatened with guns,tasers whatsoever.

This is not integration,this is keeping backward customs out of our everyday lives. You cannot hide that those people are using our 'freedom' to impose the burini on women. The mayor of Paris forbidden strings and monokinis from Paris plage,nobody said anything,but when it comes to burkini,there's a world outrage ?



Why do you have to use such words ? By respect to other pakistani members,I won't go much into details about what happened to you in 1971....

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The fact you can even justify what happened, it beggars belief. I don't think you get it do you. An innocent woman was humiliated at gun point. This is not normal. You still don't realise what is wrong and why North Africans are turning against you? Why don't you realise. Treat others like how you like to be treated.

Nobody is born like this and most definitely French society has corrupted you. When Charlie Hebdo released a comic about a dead Syrian child you know something is wrong. This is not normal behavior. I believe your society has a lot of soul searching to do instead of finding fault in other countries who are functioning perfectly fine.

Why do you have to use such words ? By respect to other pakistani members,I won't go much into details about what happened to you in 1971....

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I am humiliating you because you need to understand how this feels. I think you europeans are a bit retarded. Not very rational.

Indika said:

Not exporting Oil to India would create a budget hole in exporting countries. 60% of oil import comes from arab and rest 40% from south america & african countries. It will become expensive but not unmanageable. May be trading for russian oil from japan might benefit.

Of course there are other things like oil refineries tuned to refine light oil. But once changes are made there is no going back. Those who impose the sanctions have to lick their wounds as India will altogether stop importing from them. Which will lead to price decrease in turn. Any one who wants to shoot in their own foot can do that.

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He is talking about a supply-side oil shock more than sanctions on one specific consumer country. A consumer country can always hedge its imports from other countries in oil market....it wont be a huge deal.

But supply side shock (i.e cut off production completely to all major consumers like say after yom kippur war) means those same consumer countries probably will try to deal with you diplomatically at first and then over time depending on impact on oil prices overall, will probably invade and overthrow you (internally or by military force).

I mean you think US would have given a damn about Kuwait if it was say in Africa and swallowed up by some other African nation?

flamer84 said:

It will be more wise to see what lead us to this.This is an open society where people of all nations are accepted and despite the rhetoric on this forum this is the truth.But when your culture intrudes on me,problems surface.

Take the clothing stuff.Apart from religious official orders,can you spot an ordinary Christian ? Maybe if you squint and see a necklace with a crucificx on his neck.But a devout muslim....burqa,arabic style clothes.Because Islam is more of a ideology than religion.It tells you how to dress,how to interact with non muslims,how to fight them....The problem is that ideologies conflict with current laws and societies....and here we are.

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Well orthodox jews have very similar observances and physical attributes as muslims so do and also every day to day regulations and even how to fight (islraeli army) ... so do Sikhs so do others... doesn't matter..

Like i said... i don't care what europe does in banning Islam..

Most muslims have become rather uninterested in what Europe does in banning Islam... it's your destiny we have ours... you do what u want we will do what we want.

I used to care on the principle of freedom... now i don't. I rather see our own countries communities becoming more open and more tolerant... i see our new generation heading that way... proud of our heritage and moving forward becoming more open minded and accepting of others ... esp ending this shia-vs-sunni conflict.

flamer84 said:

Saint Mary doesn't wear a burqa you idiot.Just a headscarfe wich most Christian women did way before an Arabian warlord started a religion copying Christianity

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And Christians copied the jews?

See youbdont even know the basics about Islam... in Islam the Christians and jews of the past were muslims ... we consider it a continuation of the same one religion... of course you guys don't see it that way.... Which is understandable... the jews don't see Christians as a continuation of their religion.

Kaptaan said:

Poppycock. This is another of those far right mantra but does not bear any real life scrutiny. The chance of coloured or Muslim and that includes the Indian's unless they use plenty of white wash being pulled over by Police is far, far greater than a white person. This is fact. On the other hand we are expected to believe that those same cops will not arrest a Muslim who is buggering a minor because they are "too scared". Give me a break. Of course the same cops don't show any hesitation or political corectness when they pull over coloured drivers. This utterly blows the stupid argument propunded by the far right. More of this in some other thread.

I hope that helps ...

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Although he immensenly exeggarated this problem this does happen . Here are a couple of instances :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-face-of-such-evil-who-is-the-racist-now.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...abuse-teenage-girls-years-says-Labour-MP.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Trojan_Horse

Cherokee said:

Although he immensenly exeggarated this problem this does happen . Here are a couple of instances :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-face-of-such-evil-who-is-the-racist-now.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...abuse-teenage-girls-years-says-Labour-MP.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Trojan_Horse

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What is your point? Pedophilia is exclusive to Muslims?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ard-Huckle-admits-scores-attack-children.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gary-glitter-live-updates-paedophile-5240857

And this scum did it for the most part of his life

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34442292

Criminals come in all colours shapes and sizes.


Whats interesting is how Europe took the news of Sadiq Khan becoming Mayor of London. They could not believe a Muslim minority took charge of London. This is the beauty of UK. Europe is full of hate. Their ancestors were full of hate. All they do is hate hate hate. Hate on others who have happy societies and poke their nose in like they are torchbearers of what integration means. F**k off what you regard as integration European, you can't even integrate amongst yourselves EU total failure.

Menace2Society said:

What is your point? Pedophilia is exclusive to Muslims?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ard-Huckle-admits-scores-attack-children.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gary-glitter-live-updates-paedophile-5240857

And this scum did it for the most part of his life

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-34442292

Criminals come in all colours shapes and sizes.


Whats interesting is how Europe took the news of Sadiq Khan becoming Mayor of London. They could not believe a Muslim minority took charge of London. This is the beauty of UK. Europe is full of hate. Their ancestors were full of hate. All they do is hate hate hate. Hate on others who have happy societies and poke their nose in like they are torchbearers of what integration means. F**k off what you regard as integration European, you can't even integrate amongst yourselves EU total failure.

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You missed the point in the monotone .

Cherokee said:

Although he immensenly exeggarated this problem this does happen . Here are a couple of instances :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...-face-of-such-evil-who-is-the-racist-now.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...abuse-teenage-girls-years-says-Labour-MP.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Trojan_Horse

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I am not saying there is no pedophilia within the Pakistani community - note I said Pakistani community. I refuse to accept this "Muslim" denominator other than just loose descriptor. There is precious little to tie @Menace2Society to somebody from Senegal. Unless he is a closet Senagales in which case apologies.

What I am saying is this pedophilia was there in 1970s, 1980s, 2000s but all of sudden in 2010s it has become big, so big every second day there is some talk about it. I can't help thinking that the post 9/11 climate and the actions of certain jihadis like London Bombers have made Pakistani's target for all sort of scapegoating.

Look racism is fact of life. Did you know that even minority ethnic doctors registered with GMC recieve far more complaints [mostly Indians] - some very serious with allegations of sexual impropropriety being common. This applies across the board. Everybody knows the chance of a ethnic minority driver being pulled over is far greater than of white. Now if the claims that the Police in some fear of disturbing the politically correct culture avoided going after ethnic minorities - the question arises is why do statistics show that the police don't exactly shy off from going after ethnic minority drivers or doctors prosecuted?

On the other hand we are expected to believe that when young girls are being abused the same police who are so driven to pull over drivers are too scared of doing anything? Now let me tell you what happens. Most of these girls are run aways or in council care and are out of control. I am not excusing the crimes here but merely giving the social context.

Across the length of the land in small towns or large girls like that end up on the streets many moving into the vice trade. All will be used by scumbags who prey on these vulnerable types. From Johnny on the corner, to Leroy in the hood, to the famous like Gary Glitter. However, and this is the catch. all these scumbags are doing their thing but then along comes Ahmed. He does exactly the same thing and that triggers alarm bells not because of the crime but because the colour of his skin. When John did it was differant. Now that Ahmed has done it waves get created and media joins in and far right makes song and dance about. Result you get the distorted perception.

There are two significant factors that are differant when Ahmed does it. He will bring along his uncle, his cousin, his brother, his second cousin amd turn it into bloody party. That I think is the defining differance. Even then there are other factors like the fact that the abusers mostly work in night time economy. Taxi, take ways and convenience stores. The other is most of these workers smoke weed and that is offered to the victims. However as you probably know there has been mass accusations of pedophilia across the country with MPs, senior government ministers even accused.

However what marks out the Pakistani's is that it has given the far right their "meat" and the media has jumped on it.

And let make this absolutely clear to you all. There is actually no hatred against Islam in Western Europe. Non. If those Muslims were white you would hardly hear any complaints. In fact get a white Muslim and place him against a Indian Hindu I can assure you the Indian Hindu would suffer far more prejudice than the White Muslim. A Bosnian Muslim, a Tatar Muslin in UK would not even flip a leaf over, indeed the novelty factor would work for them. I know probably more than others. Some of my family members are extremely light skinned bordering on albino. One of them wears a full Shalwar Kameez, Pakol hat, beard and goes all over UK. And he will start praying middle of where ever he is. He has never ever faced any problem in any place. In fact wherever he goes doors fling open for him. English women fall for him.He often jokes that he is like Muslim version of the Jew. He can blend anywhere, even with the Jews.

My point is this for all here. This Islamaphobia is not Islamaphobia (at least in Western Europe) but is colour phobia. The reality is it is now very difficult to say "Wogs out" or "No darkies". Instead Muslim is being abbreviated for racism and as many right wing say "oh Muslim is not a race" so we are not being racist. Take @Markus are you expecting me to believe that he would be quite happy to see 1000 Christian Catholics from Rwanda but refuse 1000 Bosniak Muslims?

In short Islamaphobia is abbreviated racism.

flamer84 said:

Wishfull thinking.Eat your heart out when your wet dreams won't be fulfilled.

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Dude no one asked France to finger Arabs in Lybia, there is a saying in our part of the world "when goat's time comes she strolls towards the jungle." U.S. Created Al-qaida and in the end they came back to bite them, Pakistan created Taliban and the same end why did France think it would be different this time when they created Daesh. They destroyed Libya and those who lost everything got nothing to loose, France can link every terror attack to ISIS but ISIS doesnt make the terrorist but the ones who commit to terror seek ISIS's help and they find ISIS.

See that's where I disagree with the likes of Trump. Banning Islam is a simplistic approach to a complicated problem. It's like chopping off hands for theft. Matter of fact, banning Islam is counterproductive. The key word here is practicing Muslims. Say what ever you want about Islam or Muslims, what's evident is Islamic values are at odds with western values. It's as simple as that. Just deny visas to practicing Muslims and you've very little Sharia people to deal with. The remaining few sharia guys can be deported under false pretenses. Trust me, these Sharia hypocrites would gladly choose their 'Kaafir' host country over their 'beloved' religion. There! You've dealt with Islamic Extremism without firing a single bullet or raising any Anti-Islamic slogan - Just a few lawsuits here and there but who cares.

Kaptaan said:

And finally Britain left her colonies whence the migrants Muslims came from ( which are far more distant) in relative peace

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The British also took care of their colonial troops well. Nearly everyone who applied for the armed forces visa system, after the Second World War was allowed to settle in the UK. Out of 8 of my elders who fought for the British army, only one came, that was my grandfather. He also told me the officers were kind and would break bread with them during meals, sleep in the same quarters as them etc. The British had a different way of doing things.

Menace2Society said:

The fact you can even justify what happened, it beggars belief. I don't think you get it do you. An innocent woman was humiliated at gun point. This is not normal. You still don't realise what is wrong and why North Africans are turning against you? Why don't you realise. Treat others like how you like to be treated.

Nobody is born like this and most definitely French society has corrupted you. When Charlie Hebdo released a comic about a dead Syrian child you know something is wrong. This is not normal behavior. I believe your society has a lot of soul searching to do instead of finding fault in other countries who are functioning perfectly fine.



I am humiliating you because you need to understand how this feels. I think you europeans are a bit retarded. Not very rational.

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The French and in general other Westerners are loosing their souls and spirituality.

They who have power in the Judeo-Christian West ultimately wish to target the Quran.

waz said:

The British also took care of their colonial troops well. Nearly everyone who applied for the armed forces visa system, after the Second World War was allowed to settle in the UK. Out of 8 of my elders who fought for the British army, only one came, that was my grandfather. He also told me the officers were kind and would break bread with them during meals, sleep in the same quarters as them etc. The British had a different way of doing things.

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I am not proud that Muslims fought as Britain's colonial troops back in day. It is not proud moment for me to say this. Perhaps it was necessary for livelihood but certainly not proud.
I would have been proud if my ancestors fought with the N.S Germans for their liberation like many British Indians did.

http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2009/volume_1/number_3/adolf_hitlers_armed_forces.php


Adolf Hitler’s Armed Forces:
A Triumph for Diversity?
V.K. Clarke
"Triumph of diversity: This is precisely what characterized the German Armed Forces of World War II by the year 1945. While this may be difficult for many historians to accept, it is nevertheless an accurate summation of what happened in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s. Even though the Germans initiated their war with a racist doctrine in mind, one that sought to create a “New Order” for Europe, with Germany at the center and German elites at the top of the European political and racial hierarchy (a German version of the so-called “White man’s burden,” so to speak), the Germans nevertheless had to scrap this racial doctrine for one that promoted internationalism and tolerated multicultural and interethnic cooperation and intimate relations. Many Nazis were deeply affected by the non-Germans with whom they fought and worked. For example, Fritz Freitag ended up throwing Nazi doctrine to the wind, and instead focused on building a Ukrainian liberation army.

In a telephone interview with German World War II survivor “G” (his identity is being protected), I was informed for the first time that foreigners who were working under “forced labor” contracts in Germany were essentially as free as Germans themselves. The forced labor characterization, according to G, was misleading. Foreigners were paid for their work and allowed to bring their families to live in Germany with them. They enjoyed leisure activities while ethnic Germans were slaughtered by the tens-of-thousands on the Eastern Front. Theory and reality in the Third Reich differed in fundamental ways, and unless we speak directly with those who lived in Europe at the time, we will never come to know what really happened between Germans and non-Germans in their day-to-day lives. This study tries to answer this unknown as best as possible, because it has been ignored or overlooked for too long."

TMA said:

I am not proud that Muslims fought as Britain's colonial troops back in day. It is not proud moment for me to say this. Perhaps it was necessary for livelihood but certainly not proud.
I would have been proud if my ancestors fought with the N.S Germans for their liberation like many British Indians did.

http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2009/volume_1/number_3/adolf_hitlers_armed_forces.php

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I'm very proud that my ancestors did and I wouldn't use the term blanket term Muslims, it doesn't need to have a religous spin on it and the fact that it was virtually all Pakistanis, some 890,000 of them, which formed part of the 2 million strong force.
Fought for the N.S.? The Germans had no such intention of liberating India, they were going to hand over the lot to the Japanese. Asia was going to be Japan's playground, as they were deemed the most superior Asian race.
It also gives me a sense of belonging to this country and firm historical attachment to be here. We didn't beg for passports, come over as asylum seekers or refugees, we fought our souls out on the field of battle.

waz said:

I'm very proud that my ancestors did and I wouldn't use the term blanket term Muslims, it doesn't need to have a religous spin on it and the fact that it was virtually all Pakistanis, some 890,000 of them, which formed part of the 2 million strong force.
Fought for the N.S.? The Germans had no such intention of liberating India, they were going to hand over the lot to the Japanese. Asia was going to be Japan's playground, as they were deemed the most superior Asian race.
It also gives me a sense of belonging to this country and firm historical attachment to be here. We didn't beg for passports, come over as asylum seekers or refugees, we fought our souls out on the field of battle.

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It is shame that much of the late British Indian army came from what is now Pakistan. Can you imagine that these people helped "liberate" the Holy Land in concordance with the Anti Christ and helped pave the way for Imposter Israel. If Pakistanis knew this they would be ashamed and aghast.