San Bernardino terrorist attack victim autopsy reports released

FNFAL · May 31, 2016

Autopsy reports released Friday on the 14 victims who died in the Dec. 2 terrorist attack in San Bernardino shed more light on the horrific crime scene at the Inland Regional Center and the exhaustive investigation that followed.

County health inspector Syed Rizwan Farook, 28, and his wife, Tashfeen Malik, 29, stormed the conference room at the center just before 11 a.m. and — clad in tactical gear, wearing ski masks and armed with assault rifles — opened fire on more than 70 employees of the county Environmental Health Services division, where Farook worked.

http://www.sbsun.com/20160527/san-b...autopsy-reports-released?source=topstoriesrot

Who were these two terrorists?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/03/us/syed-farook-tashfeen-malik-mass-shooting-profile/
They were husband and wife
Farook, 28, and Malik, 29, were married.
He got to know Malik through an online dating service, Farook family attorney Mohammad Abuershaid said. They met face to face when Farook visited Saudi Arabia, where Malik had moved from her native Pakistan around the age of 18 or 20, according to the lawyer

risingsinga · May 31, 2016

That makes him a criminal, not a terrorist.

FNFAL · May 31, 2016

risingsinga said:
That makes him a criminal, not a terrorist.

I wish you made that statement on us soil , infront of the families that lost their members

jhungary · May 31, 2016

risingsinga said:
That makes him a criminal, not a terrorist.

According to the FBI definition of terrorism, he is a terrorist for 2 very simple reason.

They shot up a government properties (Inland Regional Centre is operated by government funded cooperation) and They shot US Government Employee.

They are more terrorist than the people that crash the planes on World Trade Centre.

risingsinga · Jun 1, 2016

FNFAL said:
I wish you made that statement on us soil , infront of the families that lost their members

This kind of incidents are common in USA. Many university students have killed dozens of their university fellows and none of them have been labelled terrorist so why the discrimination. This is just American culture, constant exploitation and media onslaught brain-washes people to become violent and take arms and kill indiscriminately.

jhungary said:
According to the FBI definition of terrorism, he is a terrorist for 2 very simple reason.

They shot up a government properties (Inland Regional Centre is operated by government funded cooperation) and They shot US Government Employee.

They are more terrorist than the people that crash the planes on World Trade Centre.

Is there any sarcasm in your comment...because I think you can't be serious.

jhungary · Jun 1, 2016

risingsinga said:
This kind of incidents are common in USA. Many university students have killed dozens of their university fellows and none of them have been labelled terrorist so why the discrimination. This is just American culture, constant exploitation and media onslaught brain-washes people to become violent and take arms and kill indiscriminately.

Again, you seems to not know anything about the United States, There are clear definition on what can be called a terrorist attack and what is not, in fact, many domestic attack have been labelled by US government and justice department as Terrorist attack, but most of those attack are quite small scale, and happened domestically, you would not hear of it all the way in Indonesia.

The key different between terrorist attack and normal crime is that an terrorist attack can only be label if they were targeting governmental employee or have indication the attack is carrier out to influence US government policy. As labelled below, how many people died in the attack does not affect whether or not this incident can be called "Terrorism"

A student killed a bunch of other student and teaching staff out of hate and jealousy is not an terrorist attack, it's a common crime, but a person who stab a postman (US Postal Service is a federal agency) because its service is shit and the mail is always late would be called domestic terrorism regardless the postal worker survive the stabbing.

Is there any sarcasm in your comment...because I think you can't be serious.

If it sounded like sarcasm to you, then mostly because you know nothing about US Law.

Under 18 United States Code Chapter 113B - Terrorism

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/terrorism/terrorism-definition

The definition of domestic terrorism as defined in Ant-terrorism Act 1990 the definition of Domestic Terrorism included

Involve acts dangerous to human life that violate federal or state law;
Appear intended

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping; and

Occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the U.S.

San Bernardino attacks basically check everyone of these three boxes

It is an act dangerous to human life that violate federal law and state law (by killing civilian and government employee)
It is to intimidate civilian population (Shooting at a public gathering)
it is an attack to affect the conduct of a government by assassination (by killing state employee)
It occur primarily in the United States (San Bernardino, California)

If you look at WTC attackers, you would still need to prove this act is to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion, but this one is clear cut terrorism as it simply take all the box as prescribe by United States Code

gambit · Jun 1, 2016

risingsinga said:
This kind of incidents are common in USA. Many university students have killed dozens of their university fellows and none of them have been labelled terrorist so why the discrimination. This is just American culture, constant exploitation and media onslaught brain-washes people to become violent and take arms and kill indiscriminately.

It is terrible here in the US. I do not know why so many Singaporeans come here to work and even bought houses here. Their children go to US public schools, play in US public parks with hardly any police in sight, and go shopping in enclosed spaces where any crazy and armed white Americans could shoot non-whites en masse.

FNFAL · Jun 1, 2016

Prosecutors Fight to Stop San Bernardino Shooter’s Family From Getting $250,000 Life Insurance Claim

http://ktla.com/2016/05/31/prosecut...ily-from-getting-250000-life-insurance-claim/

risingsinga said:
That makes him a criminal, not a terrorist.

That makes the stabbing uighurs as petty thieves. I hope you agree with this pov

risingsinga · Jun 2, 2016

gambit said:
It is terrible here in the US. I do not know why so many Singaporeans come here to work and even bought houses here. Their children go to US public schools, play in US public parks with hardly any police in sight, and go shopping in enclosed spaces where any crazy and armed white Americans could shoot non-whites en masse.

Malays and Singaporeans are the least likely to emigrate and leave their country especially to settle in another country. I don't see any reason to settle in another country other than my Singapore and everything is available to me here, not far from here is Hong Kong, Shanghai, Kuala Lumpur, Bangkok, Bali, Jakarta, Dubai, Tokyo, Seoul, Fiji etc for shopping and tourism. Tell me what's not available to me which I can only get from USA. National Univeristy of Singapore (coincidentally my university) is good enough for the best NUS students of Singapore and many other countries including USA, the ones who are unable to get a placement go abroad. I see a lot of US people settled in Singapore and doing business. I have visited USA along with multiple countries of Asia, Europe, Australia, South & North America since I like to explore the world and I can afford it and I will continue but for me USA was not something extra ordinary...rather I felt much less secure there as compared to Dubai, HK, London, EU, Iceland. One thing I must add, which I learned from my global excursions is that as a Sporean, people of the world love me and respect me. Nobody hates us because we do not attack or interfere other people's business. We have built our economy, reputation through hard work, honesty and meritocracy not by extortion and destruction of other countries for their resources like hungry and greedy pigs....so Sporean passport is more valuable for me than any other. I think an American cannot make the same claim.

Penguin · Jun 2, 2016

risingsinga said:
That makes him a criminal, not a terrorist.

Had you bothered to read the first link in the first post, you would have read:

"Early in the investigation, the FBI determined the couple were radicalized Muslims who had been planning a mass casualty attack, and declared the IRC mass shooting the deadliest terrorist strike on U.S. soil since 9/11.

The investigation revealed that Farook had planned other attacks in previous years, dating as far back as 2012, when he and his former neighbor and childhood friend, Enrique Marquez Jr., of Riverside, plotted pipe bomb attacks and mass shootings at Riverside City College and on the 91 Freeway during rush hour, according to an indictment filed against Marquez in December."

But of course, you know better than the FBI, don't you?

On December 3, 2015, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) opened a counter-terrorism investigation. On December 6, 2015, in a prime-time address delivered from the Oval Office, President Barack Obama defined the shooting as an act of terrorism.

According to FBI Director James B. Comey, the FBI's investigation revealed that the perpetrators were "homegrown violent extremists" inspired by foreign terrorist groups. They were not directed by such groups and were not part of any terrorist cell or network. FBI investigators have said that Farook and Malik had become radicalized over several years prior to the attack, consuming "poison on the internet" and expressing a commitment to jihadism and martyrdom in private messages to each other. Farook and Malik had traveled to Saudi Arabia in the years before the attack. The couple had amassed a large stockpile of weapons, ammunition, and bomb-making equipment in their home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack

... and better than the US President no less.

And your credentials are .... what?

In Senate Judiciary Committee testimony given on December 9, 2015, FBI Director James B. Comey said that the FBI investigation has shown that the shooters were "homegrown violent extremists" who were "inspired by foreign terrorist organizations."Comey also said that the attackers "were talking to each other about jihad and martyrdom," before their engagement and as early as the end of 2013. The shooters reportedly spent at least a year preparing for the attack, including taking target practice and making plans to take care of their child and Farook's mother. Comey has said that although the investigation has shown that the killers were radicalized and possibly inspired by foreign terrorist organizations, there is no indication that the couple were directed by such a group or part of a broader cell or network.

The FBI has said that there were "telephonic connections" between the couple and other people of interest in FBI probes. Comey said that the case did not follow the typical pattern for mass shootings or terrorist attacks. A senior U.S. law enforcement official said that Farook contacted "persons of interest" who were possibly tied to terrorism, although these contacts were not "substantial." A senior federal official said that Farook had some contact with people from the Nusra Front, the official al-Qaeda affiliate in Syria,[189] and Shabaab of Somalia, but specifics were unclear.

In one Arabic-language online radio broadcast, ISIL described the couple as "supporters"; The New York Times reported that this language indicates "a less direct connection" between the shooters and the terrorist group. In a December 5, 2015, English-language broadcast on its Bayan radio station, ISIL referred to the two shooters as "soldiers of the caliphate," which is a phrase ISIL uses to denote members of the terrorist organization. The New York Times reported that it was unclear why the two versions differed.

The large stockpile of weapons used by the shooters led investigators to believe that they intended to carry out further attacks. An examination of digital equipment recovered from their home suggested that the couple was in the final planning stages of a much larger attack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack#Motive_and_planning_of_the_attack

risingsinga · Jun 2, 2016

Penguin said:
Had you bothered to read the first link in the first post, you would have read:

"Early in the investigation, the FBI determined the couple were radicalized Muslims who had been planning a mass casualty attack, and declared the IRC mass shooting the deadliest terrorist strike on U.S. soil since 9/11.

The investigation revealed that Farook had planned other attacks in previous years, dating as far back as 2012, when he and his former neighbor and childhood friend, Enrique Marquez Jr., of Riverside, plotted pipe bomb attacks and mass shootings at Riverside City College and on the 91 Freeway during rush hour, according to an indictment filed against Marquez in December."

But of course, you know better than the FBI, don't you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack

... and better than the US President no less.

And your credentials are .... what?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_San_Bernardino_attack#Motive_and_planning_of_the_attack

Thanks for the info...I admit I did not go through these details. If they planned like that then of course they are terrorists.

Penguin · Jun 2, 2016

risingsinga said:
Thanks for the info...I admit I did not go through these details. If they planned like that then of course they are terrorists.

I'm glad we can agree on that. :coffee:

risingsinga · Jun 2, 2016

Penguin said:
I'm glad we can agree on that.

If someone brings knowledge, logic and evidence to me, I never reject. So I agree that IF that's true then they are terrorists.

Penguin · Jun 2, 2016

risingsinga said:
If someone brings knowledge, logic and evidence to me, I never reject. So I agree that IF that's true then they are terrorists.

What more could anyone ask ;-)

gambit · Jun 2, 2016

risingsinga said:
Thanks for the info...I admit I did not go through these details. If they planned like that then of course they are terrorists.

In other words, you like to make a fool out of yourself. But do not worry, not going through the details is normal here. The need to criticize US and make oneself feels 'superior' to Americans usually make people do stupid things without them realizing it.

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