Backdoors in equipment acquired from other countries

This question has bothered me a lot. given that modern warfare is all about modern weapons equipped with latest technology, most of these weapons are normally acquired from other countries e.g., F-16. How can an army (not necessarily pakistani) makes sure that such weapons don't have any backdoors in their softwares which can allow the sellers (US) control those weapons in critical situation. Or in other words, how secure these weapons are from cyber attacks.

thisusernameislegendary said:

This question has bothered me a lot. given that modern warfare is all about modern weapons equipped with latest technology, most of these weapons are normally acquired from other countries e.g., F-16. How can an army (not necessarily pakistani) makes sure that such weapons don't have any backdoors in their softwares which can allow the sellers (US) control those weapons in critical situation. Or in other words, how secure these weapons are from cyber attacks.

Click to expand...

Everyone does it? Except maybe Swede's. IDK.

thisusernameislegendary said:

This question has bothered me a lot. given that modern warfare is all about modern weapons equipped with latest technology, most of these weapons are normally acquired from other countries e.g., F-16. How can an army (not necessarily pakistani) makes sure that such weapons don't have any backdoors in their softwares which can allow the sellers (US) control those weapons in critical situation. Or in other words, how secure these weapons are from cyber attacks.

Click to expand...

Hi,

I really don't think that there are any back doors in modern weapons technology---the reason being that also gives an opportunity to someone else to enter----.

Simply means----if you have a locked door and a key-----then others can make keys as well or just break in---.

So---these weapons are secure from back door entry of cyber attacks----.

Now you when you are updating with newer modules----you can put a program in it----but still it is not done----.

The weapons systems are sold on TRUST----that they will perform under extreme duress to the likes or dislikes of a manufacturer or the country that sold it---.

I have serious doubts that newer block 52's have remotely operated kill switches, if not, then I will be surprised.

MastanKhan said:

Hi,

I really don't think that there are any back doors in modern weapons technology---the reason being that also gives an opportunity to someone else to enter----.

Simply means----if you have a locked door and a key-----then others can make keys as well or just break in---.

So---these weapons are secure from back door entry of cyber attacks----.

Now you when you are updating with newer modules----you can put a program in it----but still it is not done----.

The weapons systems are sold on TRUST----that they will perform under extreme duress to the likes or dislikes of a manufacturer or the country that sold it---.

Click to expand...

Though Australia had issues with their F-16's, software implemented by USA, they circumvent it...

Maybe Pakistan should throw some cash wink wink

MastanKhan said:

Hi,

I really don't think that there are any back doors in modern weapons technology---the reason being that also gives an opportunity to someone else to enter----.

Simply means----if you have a locked door and a key-----then others can make keys as well or just break in---.

So---these weapons are secure from back door entry of cyber attacks----.

Now you when you are updating with newer modules----you can put a program in it----but still it is not done----.

The weapons systems are sold on TRUST----that they will perform under extreme duress to the likes or dislikes of a manufacturer or the country that sold it---.

Click to expand...

That's the point. If i am selling my top weapon, say JF-17 to Israel (hypothetical) then I would like to leave an option to control/kill it during critical times. It doesn't matter if its me who is doing it or someone else, at least I know that if during a combat i am facing JF-17 the I would have an extra options up my sleeves to handle them.

thisusernameislegendary said:

That's the point. If i am selling my top weapon, say JF-17 to Israel (hypothetical) then I would like to leave an option to control/kill it during critical times. It doesn't matter if its me who is doing it or someone else, at least I know that if during a combat i am facing JF-17 the I would have an extra options up my sleeves to handle them.

Click to expand...

Hi,

It don't work like that---. The system that you have is IFF---other than that----there is nothing much---. There is no such thing that you can flip a switch and it goes bonkers.

Theoretically it's possible to some degree, though not a complete kill switch but malfunctioning of certain components. More likely in s/w coding that can be activated by external navigation chip.

Practically if someone implements that, only future war will tell.

Most suspicious buyer for Uncle Sam is Pakistan. A guy who regularly visits his shop, and Uncle doesn't want to sell him his guns, even the old ones, but at the same time he can't simply refuse him to buy from shops of other gangsters in the town.
A true pain in the as like customer of Uncle Sam.

thisusernameislegendary said:

This question has bothered me a lot. given that modern warfare is all about modern weapons equipped with latest technology, most of these weapons are normally acquired from other countries e.g., F-16. How can an army (not necessarily pakistani) makes sure that such weapons don't have any backdoors in their softwares which can allow the sellers (US) control those weapons in critical situation. Or in other words, how secure these weapons are from cyber attacks.

Click to expand...

PAF should use it with US approval for getting more used F-16s from countries in Asia, South America and EU.

im not sure about kill switiches but a similar divice does exist.
turkey builds f16s and some of the components come from the US in sealed cases that cant be opened without a code.
now when an tuaf f16 crashed and the pliot died. the f16 was put into a hanger to be inspected to find the cause of the crash. but upon inspection one of the sealed componets was broken and upon checking the sealed component contained a bug.

point being i dont trust the US in advanced kit. only major allies like the israel and the the UK and a few others get the privladge of having full access to high tech weapons.

also did you know pakistan needs aproval to use the blk52 abroad?

MastanKhan said:

Hi,

I really don't think that there are any back doors in modern weapons technology---the reason being that also gives an opportunity to someone else to enter----.

Simply means----if you have a locked door and a key-----then others can make keys as well or just break in---.

So---these weapons are secure from back door entry of cyber attacks----.

Now you when you are updating with newer modules----you can put a program in it----but still it is not done----.

The weapons systems are sold on TRUST----that they will perform under extreme duress to the likes or dislikes of a manufacturer or the country that sold it---.

Click to expand...

Really? After the Snowden and NSA debacle, do you still believe there AREN'T any backdoors? It is quite prudent to assume there are logging devices and backdoors in such sensitive equipment.

v9s said:

Really? After the Snowden and NSA debacle, do you still believe there AREN'T any backdoors? It is quite prudent to assume there are logging devices and backdoors in such sensitive equipment.

Click to expand...

Hi,

Not in weapons systems---because if you can get in---then someone else can get in as well.

MastanKhan said:

Hi,

Not in weapons systems---because if you can get in---then someone else can get in as well.

Click to expand...

Not correct Mastan.

We can implement and program stuff and you or someone else may never know about it.

In the kilograms upon kilograms of electronics, one may never know everything.

MastanKhan said:

Hi,

Not in weapons systems---because if you can get in---then someone else can get in as well.

Click to expand...

Nope. It's very hard to find backdoors. This is also the reason why the American Govt refuses to import any kind of electronic component from China for use in American defence equipment.

MastanKhan said:

Hi,

Not in weapons systems---because if you can get in---then someone else can get in as well.

Click to expand...

Time to upgrade, its very very easy to build backdoor in complex systems as there are 1000s of parts that come together to work.

Adding a Kill switch, well not likely, but yes ability to confuse the pilot or not providing desired lift or not performing desire action can be done remotely to control the actions of a flight.

Infact there have been several tests like these to check if flights could be remotely hacked into...i am sure some people have posted more details...google it...its a very interesting subject to play with.

I am not saying controlling remotely, but getting flight related data remotely and trying to confuse the pilot and system at large.