How Will India's Attempted Hinduization Impact Pakistan and the World?

Haq's musings.

On a Sunday?

I'd rather have a mastectomy.

Both totally unnecessary.

Both eminently painful.

It will effect Pakistan as we would have an India with a tougher foreign policy and belligerent attitude towards Pakistan. But the real victims will be muslims-both loyal ones who will see their loyalty count for nothing as Hindutvas traipse on through the flag of secular India and the unloyal ones who will slowly grow convinced of the benefits of independence or merger with Pakistan. Either way it could mean some few migrants coming from Indian occupied parts to what is now Pakistan.

I feel sorry for the loyal muslims. 60 years waiting for their rights, believing in secular India and this is what they get. The butcher of Gujarat as their leader and ruler. They will further be marginalized and their wishes for a better future in India will be torn away like toilet paper. Pakistan is the only hope for us. I say this again and again as a Lucknowi.

Out relatives and friends still left in Lucknow should adopt a positive image of Pakistan. It is for their own benefit. No need to please the Hindus by bashing Pakistan. You yourself will be the victim.

haviZsultan said:

It will effect Pakistan as we would have an India with a tougher foreign policy and belligerent attitude towards Pakistan. But the real victims will be muslims-both loyal ones who will see their loyalty count for nothing as Hindutvas traipse on through the flag of secular India and the unloyal ones who will slowly grow convinced of the benefits of independence or merger with Pakistan. Either way it could mean some few migrants coming from Indian occupied parts to what is now Pakistan.

I feel sorry for the loyal muslims. 60 years waiting for their rights, believing in secular India and this is what they get. The butcher of Gujarat as their leader and ruler. They will further be marginalized and their wishes for a better future in India will be torn away like toilet paper. Pakistan is the only hope for us. I say this again and again as a Lucknowi.

Out relatives and friends still left in Lucknow should adopt a positive image of Pakistan. It is for their own benefit. No need to please the Hindus by bashing Pakistan. You yourself will be the victim.

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You are really saying one painfully true thing after another. I wish I could give in to my inner feelings and scream and curse you and ask you to go f&&k yourself. Unfortunately, most of what you are saying makes sense. I suppose it is like taking medicine......Why don't you behave like Batmannow or Ifrit or one of those little air-heads? It would be so easy to ignore you then and spit at your posts.

@Joe Shearer do present your views. Christians and Muslims in there have always felt they are in the same boat and voting preferences have been or are said to be similar. So how do you see this-the growing power of BJP. I mean this is pure communalism in the voting mechanisms of each community. I don't have a single cousin who voted BJP but I know no single hindu from India who did not vote BJP. Christians I am not sure...

I'm really not enjoying this thread.

Damn the OP.

haviZsultan said:

@Joe Shearer do present your views. Christians and Muslims in there have always felt they are in the same boat and voting preferences have been or are said to be similar. So how do you see this-the growing power of BJP. I mean this is pure communalism in the voting mechanisms of each community. I don't have a single cousin who voted BJP but I know no single hindu from India who did not vote BJP. Christians I am not sure...

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Views on what?

What happened in the elections? Or what happened after the elections? Or what might happen? Or all of these? The last will be very long, might drive everybody to drink, alcohol for the Hindus and Sikhs and Christians, poison for the Muslims.

Because of length, not content.

Be back in twenty minutes. Domestic emergency. Sort of.

Sanchez said:

1) Does any of major religions teach the opposite to "tolerance, unity...all good things“？
2) Does any of those religious fanatics or extremists do not behave violent to the non believers or other believers?

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I wrote an article about atheism many years ago and I appreciate them because they are the group least prone to violence-the religious type.

Rajesh12379 said:

Stop this stupid obsession with India. Focus on your own Islam ka qila and other fellow similar Islamic states like Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Somalia, Yemen etc.

Despite your obsession and delusion, India and Pakistan are not competitors. It is a one way pathetic obsession that has taken Pakistan to the brink of failure.

Heed Haqqani's advice and stop this Indian obsession. Even if it makes your whole life so far seem meaningless (it always was).

And start working on doing something good for your country. First by returning to it.

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His views do represent an opportunity to look at the other side. There may never be a time when the views of all people confirm with each other. Pakistanis are aware that India is advancing but old problems plague it. You can view his views as a means to improve your society. That is why criticism exists and foreign nationals are often more critical of locals. This is a universal truth. How we use that criticism-brush it off or use it to better our society is our choice.

haviZsultan said:

It will effect Pakistan as we would have an India with a tougher foreign policy and belligerent attitude towards Pakistan. But the real victims will be muslims-both loyal ones who will see their loyalty count for nothing as Hindutvas traipse on through the flag of secular India and the unloyal ones who will slowly grow convinced of the benefits of independence or merger with Pakistan. Either way it could mean some few migrants coming from Indian occupied parts to what is now Pakistan.

I feel sorry for the loyal muslims. 60 years waiting for their rights, believing in secular India and this is what they get. The butcher of Gujarat as their leader and ruler. They will further be marginalized and their wishes for a better future in India will be torn away like toilet paper. Pakistan is the only hope for us. I say this again and again as a Lucknowi.

Out relatives and friends still left in Lucknow should adopt a positive image of Pakistan. It is for their own benefit. No need to please the Hindus by bashing Pakistan. You yourself will be the victim.

Click to expand...

You better worry about the condition of your own minorities. Rapes of the few Hindus left, forcible conversion, murder of Christians in the name of blasphemy, the systemic ethnic cleansing of minorities right from the creation of Pakistan.

Your "feeling sorry" only invites contempt from Indians. You chose your lot in 1947 and after that you have nothing to do with us and we have nothing to do with you.

This constant harping of Lucknow connection is as stupid as being a "cultural Pathan". It has been 7 decades and I think it is safe to say you were not born in Lucknow but probably in Karachi. Carrying this is stupid as far as we are concerned and also for the new country that gave you refuge.

Though it has nothing to do with you, if we didn't ethnically cleanse our Muslims like both West Pakistan and East Pakistan have done with their Hindu Sikhs, we are not about to do it now.

Though your kind certainly wishes that Indian Muslims suffer so that their wretched existence is justified.

haviZsultan said:

His views do represent an opportunity to look at the other side. There may never be a time when the views of all people confirm with each other. Pakistanis are aware that India is advancing but old problems plague it. You can view his views as a means to improve your society. That is why criticism exists and foreign nationals are often more critical of locals. This is a universal truth. How we use that criticism-brush it off or use it to better our society is our choice.

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I am not saying we are perfect. We have lots of issues, just like every large country in the world.

All I am saying is that Pakistan has nothing to do with us. And the haters like the OP and others should mind their own business. They are the last ones to advise us, looking at what you have done first to non Muslims and now to your own Islamic sects.

Rajesh12379 said:

You better worry about the condition of your own minorities. Rapes of the few Hindus left, forcible conversion, murder of Christians in the name of blasphemy, the systemic ethnic cleansing of minorities right from the creation of Pakistan.

Your "feeling sorry" only invites contempt from Indians. You chose your lot in 1947 and after that you have nothing to do with us and we have nothing to do with you.

This constant harping of Lucknow connection is as stupid as being a "cultural Pathan".

Though it has nothing to do with you, if we didn't ethnically cleanse our Muslims like both West Pakistan and East Pakistan have done with their Hindu Sikhs, we are not about to do it now.

Though your kind certainly wishes that Indian Muslims suffer so that their wretched existence is justified.



I am not saying we are perfect. We have lots of issues, just like every large country in the world.

All I am saying is that Pakistan has nothing to do with us. And the haters like the OP and others should mind their own business. They are the last ones to advise us, looking at what you have done first to non Muslims and now to your own Islamic sects.

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First of all we did not move in 47, so we are not the original batch that hold muslims left in Lucknow in contempt and separate from us. We moved much later-especially my mother.

There is an evident bond between us Lucknowis-which is btw our ethnic group which no one can deny. I have also stayed in Luckow for a part of my life. We share the same customs, have family on both sides of this border and most of all believe in the Islamic ideology of Khilafat. To destroy these links India will have to do much-integrate the muslims so well and of course stop treating the muslims as a problem or liability rather than as an asset that can be won over. Personally thats how I would like Pakistan to view minorities.

Also to note the Pashtun roots of many migrants read about the Rohilla people and Bayazid Ansari may have been one of my ancestors. He was a pashtun. In fact Fatehpur and Rohillakhand have a high population of Muslim pathans. It is possible to be both muhajir and pathan- but ethnic tensions have made thinking of ethnic group very linear. Also the pathans of UP did not know pashto so they found it easier to merge as muhajirs. A mistake.

You are digressing from the topic. India has never treated us muslims as a part and parcel of India. There was a movie about the 62 war and not a single muslim soldier was enacted in the movie. only Hindus and Sikhs. I don't see a single reason why I should be loyal to India just because my roots are in Lucknow. India wouldn't even be a separate country if the British hadn't unified it. There were so many pieces of it when it was formed.

haviZsultan said:

First of all we did not move in 47, so we are not the original batch that hold muslims left in Lucknow in contempt and separate from us. We moved much later-especially my mother.

There is an evident bond between us Lucknowis-which is btw our ethnic group which no one can deny. I have also stayed in Luckow for a part of my life.

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See, again none of this matters to anyone. You are now a Pakistani and your only allegiance should be to Pakistan.

Same as the allegiance of any Indian of any religon should be to India.


Lucknow is a geographic location, not an ethnicity. You are a karachiite (or a Hyderabadi may be), not a Lucknawai. You should not name places in Karachi after places in India.

We share the same customs, have family on both sides of this border and most of all believe in the Islamic ideology of Khilafat.

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It is good that people with such ideologies left India. They have no place here and never did.

In fact, such people got contempt from Turks and Arabs and Afghanistan before independence itself. When they tried to be more loyal than the king and tried to migrate to Afghanistan or reach Turkey during the Khilafah movement.

I am sorry but I have no sympathy for such an ideology, only contempt.

Your current Khalifa is Baghdadi, the previous Emir-Ul-Islam was Mullah Umar. Which one do you support?

To destroy these links India will have to do much-integrate the muslims so well and of course stop treating the muslims as a problem or liability rather than as an asset that can be won over. Personally thats how I would like Pakistan to view minorities.

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It is a two way street. India already offers the Muslims democracy and freedom of religion for all sects. Something that is unique I believe for a large number of Muslims anywhere in the world.

In fact, it is abused in many places by blaring azaans from mosques in areas with very small number of Muslims. No non-Muslim country in the world allows this. Anywhere.

Also to note the Pashtun roots of many migrants read about the Rohilla people and Bayazid Ansari may have been one of my ancestors. He was a pashtun. In fact Fatehpur and Rohillakhand have a high population of Muslim pathans. It is possible to be both muhajir and pathan- but ethnic tensions have made thinking of ethnic group very linear. Also the pathans of UP did not know pashto so they found it easier to merge as muhajirs. A mistake.

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OK.

You are digressing from the topic. India has never treated us muslims as a part and parcel of India. There was a movie about the 62 war and not a single muslim soldier was enacted in the movie. only Hindus and Sikhs. I don't see a single reason why I should be loyal to India just because my roots are in Lucknow. India wouldn't even be a separate country if the British hadn't unified it. There were so many pieces of it when it was formed.

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See people with Khilafat ideology can never belong to any country.

Patriotic Indians of any faith have full freedom. And it has nothing to do with Pakistanis.

And no, you should not be loyal to India. Just to Pakistan.

And recognize that India has nothing to do with you. It is over and done with. Once and for all.

قناص said:

So,when did Taj Mahel and Lal Qila are going to be demolished.

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They ll have to demolish much more than just Taj Mahal and Lal Qila. Every monument and piece of architecture that they take pride in was developed by Muslims. What they market around the world as Indian cuisine are inherited from recipes brought by Muslims and mostly retain their Persian/Turk names, Biryani, Korma, pulao, Murgh Musallam, and whole range of Kofta, Barfi, Kalakand, Sheer Khurma Falooda, Kheer and the list goes on. Most of the music instruments were developed or brought here by Muslims. Music was developed under the supervision of Muslim rulers especially Mughal Kings who themselves were greats critics of it. Every style in which they cut, sew and fashion their clothes was brought here or developed by Muslims. Languages and poetry till today remain quintessentially a Muslim thing, Ghalib, Mir, Zauq, Atish, Dard, Jigar, Sahir Ludhiyanvi, till today's modern poets. Many of Mughal prices and princesses were poets and last emperor was a prolific Urdu poet. That era and people of fine arts were "devils", while Savages of Maratha empire are heroes for our neighbors.

Shoaib Aziz said:

They ll have to demolish much more than just Taj Mahal and Lal Qila. Every monument and piece of architecture that they take pride in was developed by Muslims. What they market around the world as Indian cuisine are inherited from recipes brought by Muslims and mostly retain their Persian/Turk names, Biryani, Korma, pulao, Murgh Musallam, and whole range of Kofta, Barfi, Kalakand, Sheer Khurma Falooda, Kheer and the list goes on. Most of the music instruments were developed or brought here by Muslims. Music was developed under the supervision of Muslim rulers especially Mughal Kings who themselves were greats critics of it. Every style in which they cut, sew and fashion their clothes was brought here or developed by Muslims. Languages and poetry till today remain quintessentially a Muslim thing, Ghalib, Mir, Zauq, Atish, Dard, Jigar, Sahir Ludhiyanvi, till today's modern poets. Many of Mughal prices and princesses were poets and last emperor was a prolific Urdu poet. That era and people of fine arts were "devils", while Savages of Maratha empire are heroes for our neighbors.

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Taj Mahal was not built by destroying any Indian gem. Hence it stays. Same as Lal Qila.

SarthakGanguly said:

Taj Mahal was not built by destroying any Indian gem. Hence it stays. Same as Lal Qila.

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It was written in response to the wish of a forum member which I quote again, "Every last bit of the Islamic imperialistic remains will be eliminated in India."

Shoaib Aziz said:

It was written in response to the wish of a forum member which I quote again, "Every last bit of the Islamic imperialistic remains will be eliminated in India."

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Taj Mahal was not an imperialistic remain. Humayun's tomb, Jama Masjid in Delhi etc are not imperialistic remains. Quattul Islam Masjid is one though, for example. I don't want them to be destroyed. I want them to be remembered.

Shoaib Aziz said:

They ll have to demolish much more than just Taj Mahal and Lal Qila. Every monument and piece of architecture that they take pride in was developed by Muslims. What they market around the world as Indian cuisine are inherited from recipes brought by Muslims and mostly retain their Persian/Turk names, Biryani, Korma, pulao, Murgh Musallam, and whole range of Kofta, Barfi, Kalakand, Sheer Khurma Falooda, Kheer and the list goes on. Most of the music instruments were developed or brought here by Muslims. Music was developed under the supervision of Muslim rulers especially Mughal Kings who themselves were greats critics of it. Every style in which they cut, sew and fashion their clothes was brought here or developed by Muslims. Languages and poetry till today remain quintessentially a Muslim thing, Ghalib, Mir, Zauq, Atish, Dard, Jigar, Sahir Ludhiyanvi, till today's modern poets. Many of Mughal prices and princesses were poets and last emperor was a prolific Urdu poet. That era and people of fine arts were "devils", while Savages of Maratha empire are heroes for our neighbors.

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You are much mistaken.

Those nomadic, uncivilized, uncouth, cruel barbarians who started off by building skull minarets of your kabailis destroyed much more than they "built". Anyway, they didn't bring the money from their forsaken fil.thy place, it was all Indian money, Indian artisans and Indian expertise. These barbaric invaders were just fil.thy parasites.

You may think they delivered you from Jahiliyah and Pakistanis' ancestors were all jahils whoi went to eternal daujakh. We think these uncivilized invaders were jaahils and we had a great Dharmic civilization that is the only ancient civilization that is still continuing from thousands of years.

Anyway, music and maushiki is supposed to be haraam in Islam, so is depiction of any human form. India had great traditions of art and music for thousands of years. These barbarians who were making skull pyramids had nothing to offer anything here, they were just parasites as far as we are concerned.

TMA said:

There are many similarities between Hitler's Germany and Putin's Russia. Visit POLAND 1939 = UKRAINE 2014
(This was from the time when Crimea requested to go back to Russia so it is not uptodate.)

Did Hitler make a genocide? Have you just been reading the Victor's History?

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Oh really , so when you I'll be announcing that neo -moodi-NAZI Hindustan ?lolz

SarthakGanguly said:

Taj Mahal was not an imperialistic remain. Humayun's tomb, Jama Masjid in Delhi etc are not imperialistic remains. Quattul Islam Masjid is one though, for example. I don't want them to be destroyed. I want them to be remembered.

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Sure nice / hope there will be moderate peoples Hindus , like you who are liberals & are still in majority which won't let these stupid moodi slaves , destroy another BABARI MOSQUE to start their dam politics ?
We are counting in you guys .