How Bias in Text books fuels division in Pakistani society

Rain Man said:

Most (almost all) of the discussions in this forum are based on the articles in newspapers and magazines. One cannot have any discussion here with the criterion you are stating. Or you want this discussion to be an exception?

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I have merely described what primary sources would mean in this case. What you wish to do with this information, or reject it, is entirely up to you. I am bowing out. Peace!

Syed.Ali.Haider said:

I have merely described what primary sources would mean in this case. What you wish to do with this information, or reject it, is entirely up to you. I am bowing out. Peace!

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Realistically speaking, even that won't help in this case, nothing would, but that's another story.

Enough of this,
@Akheilos @Syed.Ali.Haider @Sheikh Rauf @Slav Defence

My appeal to all Pakistanis who are debating here, is to provide link to actual text books which are taught in Pakistan for year 2014 or 15. I tried finding actual books online but could not find it. There is some portal started by Punjab government where online books can be found but it does not have history books.

elearn Punjab

This topic was discussed to death in details in 2008 on PDF. That time also i requested to Pakistanis to provide links to actual book but all in vain.

Lets not have Debate for the sake of having Debate instead lets discuss to find out the truth.

Rajkumar said:

Enough of this,
@Akheilos @Syed.Ali.Haider @Sheikh Rauf @Slav Defence

My appeal to all Pakistanis who are debating here, is to provide link to actual text books which are taught in Pakistan for year 2014 or 15. I tried finding actual books online but could not find it. There is some portal started by Punjab government where online books can be found but it does not have history books.

elearn Punjab

This topic was discussed to death in details in 2008 on PDF. That time also i requested to Pakistanis to provide links to actual book but all in vain.

Lets not have Debate for the sake of having Debate instead lets discuss to find out the truth.

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It's like urging the defendant to provide proof of his/her crime, if any, for the sake of justice and fairness. Nice. But the world doesn't work in that way dear.

Rain Man said:

It's like urging the defendant to provide proof of his/her crime, if any, for the sake of justice and fairness. Nice. But the world doesn't work in that way dear.

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First of all, there are no defendants or Accuser or Justice servers of some sort.
Second, You are presuming lot of things before reading the books. I would suggest against it.

All i am asking from them to give something which acceptable to all. It is going to kill all doubts about authenticity, intentions and sources. Every body can read it and draw useful information to present their case.

What I m seeing here is a group of people who are sick. Sick upto extreme limits in their enmity for Pakistan's ideology i.e Islam. U people call Zia's Pakistan to be 'Wahabistan', but u have no issues about Mush's 'Vulgaristan' and his 'Americanistan' !! All of these words like tolerance, liberalism etc are nothing but shiny wrapers around your Anti-Islam package. U all seem to have the same goal as TTP i.e to induce hatred against Islam, be it by objecting to the Islamic content of our courses or by objecting to the presence of the Islamic rules in our constitution.

Rajkumar said:

First of all, there are no defendants or Accuser or Justice servers of some sort.
Second, You are presuming lot of things before reading the books. I would suggest against it.

All i am asking from them to give something which acceptable to all. It is going to kill all doubts about authenticity, intentions and sources. Every body can read it and draw useful information to present their case.

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Newspapers, magazines and TV news channels are globally accepted medium to receive information, I am looking at these sources for information like rest of the sane and civilized world without any prejudice or presumption. That's quite an accepted norm around the world and in this forum. For example, we discuss the attrocities being committed by the ISIS without actually going there and sticking our neck out under their knives, right? (Note: it is just an example and should be viewed as such).

You are free to discuss or not discuss it as per your own wish and method.

Ideological Defender said:

What I m seeing here is a group of people who are sick. Sick upto extreme limits in their enmity for Pakistan's ideology i.e Islam. U people call Zia's Pakistan to be 'Wahabistan', but u have no issues about Mush's 'Vulgaristan' and his 'Americanistan' !! All of these words like tolerance, liberalism etc are nothing but shiny wrapers around your Anti-Islam package. U all seem to have the same goal as TTP i.e to induce hatred against Islam, be it by objecting to the Islamic content of our courses or by objecting to the presence of the Islamic rules in our constitution.

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Istan Istan Istan Istan Istan

Rain Man said:

You are free to discuss or not discuss it as per your own wish and method.

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Fair Enough

Ideological Defender said:

What I m seeing here is a group of people who are sick. Sick upto extreme limits in their enmity for Pakistan's ideology i.e Islam. U people call Zia's Pakistan to be 'Wahabistan', but u have no issues about Mush's 'Vulgaristan' and his 'Americanistan' !! All of these words like tolerance, liberalism etc are nothing but shiny wrapers around your Anti-Islam package. U all seem to have the same goal as TTP i.e to induce hatred against Islam, be it by objecting to the Islamic content of our courses or by objecting to the presence of the Islamic rules in our constitution.

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Can you please provide a summary of the point you were trying to make?

Akheilos said:

He googled...if that is research...I am truly shocked at what is taught in india!

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Yeah...googling something is so easy, right? Then why didn't you simply google your way out of this debate instead of simply giving first principle arguments? If googling was so easy, you should have been able to produce enough references of your own to prove your assertions, and not just your own self-important words.

Akheilos said:

13/ 20+ were not even within the time frame

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Decided by whom? Have you been able to establish that there were significant changes in the syllabus since then? No you haven't. You have simply claimed so. Without you having disproved published works by way of primary material from a later date, your claim is invalid.

Rajkumar said:

Istan Istan Istan Istan Istan



Fair Enough

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I have not spoken to you !!! I am talking to 'your' Pakistani friends ... Moreover put a bridle to your mouth !!!

Rajkumar said:

Enough of this,
@Akheilos @Syed.Ali.Haider @Sheikh Rauf @Slav Defence

My appeal to all Pakistanis who are debating here, is to provide link to actual text books which are taught in Pakistan for year 2014 or 15. I tried finding actual books online but could not find it. There is some portal started by Punjab government where online books can be found but it does not have history books.

elearn Punjab

This topic was discussed to death in details in 2008 on PDF. That time also i requested to Pakistanis to provide links to actual book but all in vain.

Lets not have Debate for the sake of having Debate instead lets discuss to find out the truth.

Click to expand...

And you should have no concern with what's happening in Pakistan !!! Just go and have a view of what your in-tolerant PM Modi is doing !!!

True and it is not just the text books that are biased but the whole education system has been designed to lead the coming generations towards social, religious and national bias.

Rajkumar said:

My appeal to all Pakistanis who are debating here, is to provide link to actual text books which are taught in Pakistan for year 2014 or 15. I tried finding actual books online but could not find it. There is some portal started by Punjab government where online books can be found but it does not have history books.

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I was out of this thread, but your post deserves a response: The burden of proof lies on the party making the claim. If anyone claims objectionable material in Pakistani textbooks, then it is up to them to provide the primary reference source. Pakistanis themselves are fine with the books being taught to their children, and if they have any objection, they have a perfectly valid due process to follow in making any changes agreed upon.

Rajkumar said:

Enough of this,
@Akheilos @Syed.Ali.Haider @Sheikh Rauf @Slav Defence

My appeal to all Pakistanis who are debating here, is to provide link to actual text books which are taught in Pakistan for year 2014 or 15. I tried finding actual books online but could not find it. There is some portal started by Punjab government where online books can be found but it does not have history books.

elearn Punjab

This topic was discussed to death in details in 2008 on PDF. That time also i requested to Pakistanis to provide links to actual book but all in vain.

Lets not have Debate for the sake of having Debate instead lets discuss to find out the truth.

Click to expand...

You made a good point.

Syed.Ali.Haider said:

...Pakistanis themselves are fine with the books being taught to their children, and if they have any objection, they have a perfectly valid due process to follow in making any changes agreed upon.

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What is that process, exactly?

Ideological Defender said:

And you should have no concern with what's happening in Pakistan !!! Just go and have a view of what your in-tolerant PM Modi is doing !!!

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Poisoning minds of future generation is not good move irrespective of country. Actually i am not concerned either, not i care about Modi . Debate was interesting in this thread so i was merely suggesting an acceptable solution to 'intellectuals' out of interest.

Syed.Ali.Haider said:

I was out of this thread, but your post deserves a response: The burden of proof lies on the party making the claim. If anyone claims objectionable material in Pakistani textbooks, then it is up to them to provide the primary reference source. Pakistanis themselves are fine with the books being taught to their children, and if they have any objection, they have a perfectly valid due process to follow in making any changes agreed upon.

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what are we playing here ? Court Room..Court Room ???
I simply wanted to take out facts from real sources by assuming that you guys would be equally interested in finding out the truth. I am not interested in playing court rooms with you. Have a good day.