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Iran: Most developed country in Muslim world thanks to Western sanctions

Yes. Maybe. One of the biggest exports of Turkey is textile. Mostly underwear and bras and such stuff. They do not have any nuclear technology. They can not launch a satellite into space. They do not have missile technology. They tried to build a drone and designed it too heavy to fly, so had to beg Israelis to redesign it for them but still it has not become operational. They even buy their battery powered hand launched drones from Israel.

So yeah, overall they are very advanced. After all they are in NATO and being in NATO and getting American military aid does help.

By this argument isnt pakistan the most advanced muslim country? we got nukes, we got our own delivery systems, we make combat drones, we sell drones to us. Tanks/apc/ spg ... And then there is JF17 , we r also making our own bvr missiles .. .. and if we need a settlite , i bet we can put one in space too...
 
By this argument isnt pakistan the most advanced muslim country? we got nukes, we got our own delivery systems, we make combat drones, we sell drones to us. Tanks/apc/ spg ... And then there is JF17 , we r also making our own bvr missiles .. .. and if we need a settlite , i bet we can put one in space too...
Everyone has a optimistic and positive view of their military. This is not opinion but fact. Everyone is a little bit biased. Pakistanis and Iranians being neighbors and cousins are pretty much the same thing. Each of us thinks highly of our own military. What we need is someone to look critically at our militaries. In other words we need an outsiders view of our military as they are better gauges. No personal stake in proving someone elses military weak/strong, but there is a personal stake when judging your own military.

A critical look can help us find chinks in our armor. So Iranian brothers if someone criticizes your military think of it as an opportunity to improve. Same applies to us Pakistanis. As an outsider I can judge that Irans independent policy and the doctrine of make in Iran by Iran is a very positive and useful development and if muslim countries cooperate with Iran we can all benefit. But shallow interests are at work, fighting sectarian wars and there is infighting in the ummah. Lets rise above this and work together. Thanks.

@Serpentine, @haman10 @Daneshmand @Atanz @Akheilos
 
By this argument isnt pakistan the most advanced muslim country? we got nukes, we got our own delivery systems, we make combat drones, we sell drones to us. Tanks/apc/ spg ... And then there is JF17 , we r also making our own bvr missiles .. .. and if we need a settlite , i bet we can put one in space too...

Military is just an aspect and not an absolute indicator of success for the entire country. Having a decent military does not mean that the country is the "most" advance or anything of that sort. There are various other factors you need to take into account such as the HDI, Healthcare, Education, Manufacturing, Infrastructure, Crime Rate etc.
 
What we need is someone to look critically at our militaries. In other words we need an outsiders view of our military as they are better gauges. No personal stake in proving someone elses military weak/strong, but there is a personal stake when judging your own military.
THAT outsider needs to be unbiased - cant find such person everyone is into causing 2 brothers/ cousins to fight!
 
THAT outsider needs to be unbiased - cant find such person everyone is into causing 2 brothers/ cousins to fight!
Well my personal view is that there is a severe difference in Pakistan and Irans military doctrine. Iran wants to build itself. The setbacks of this policy is that since Islamic countries do not possess modern technologies this is difficult making in my view the military of Iran not the best among Islamic states

Pakistan is different. Our logic has been since we cannot outstrip the west in war knowledge and gadgets we must befriend them. This has limited our foreign policy and weakened our role as an Islamic superpower, rather becoming a slave country but has made our military a little stronger.

I may be wrong. But then again there are biases when we look at our own military (which we see as postive) and anothers military (which we see as negative). This is a fundamental flaw in us human beings. Because not only does it not let us see the positivity of anothers military doctrine it also makes us fail in identifying problems and mistakes we have made.
 
Well my personal view is that there is a severe difference in Pakistan and Irans military doctrine. Iran wants to build itself. The setbacks of this policy is that since Islamic countries do not possess modern technologies this is difficult making in my view the military of Iran not the best among Islamic states

Pakistan is different. Our logic has been since we cannot outstrip the west in war knowledge and gadgets we must befriend them. This has limited our foreign policy and weakened our role as an Islamic superpower, rather becoming a slave country but has made our military a little stronger.

I may be wrong. But then again there are biases when we look at our own military (which we see as postive) and anothers military (which we see as negative). This is a fundamental flaw in us human beings. Because not only does it not let us see the positivity of anothers military doctrine it also makes us fail in identifying problems and mistakes we have made.
Our major problem is the bitchy neighbor....if they get support we get squashed esp economically ....something Iran doesnt have to fear hence there cant be a comparison as we are in different situations!
 
There are differances in Iran and Pakistan. Whilst Pakistan is ahead on certain specific fields like nuclear technology and it's military is better equiped however Iran is league years ahead in something far more fundamental - social/education and societal development. In other words they have 99.9 literacy with the younger population profile being more similar to European countries in terms of education and outlook. Whereas large parts of Pakistan are still trapped in medieval fueudalism and backwardness. We in Pakistan have created little pockets of green in a sea of arid desert. They on the other hand have turned the entire desert green. This fact is most obvious when you look at female literacy, female university entrants, female employment and population growth.

On the military side I believe Pakistan has better trained and better armed forces. However the Iranian's bring something remarkable to the battlefield. Extreme unity and ability to take incredible punishment. Pakistan has not managed to protract any war longer than three months. Iran has sustained almost decade of all out war losing millions.

However I know Iran/Pakistan will never fight. We are neighbours. Yeh we may have differance but they mean nought in the big scheme of things. We consider our culture and civilization superior to Indians primarily because of it's Persian heritage.
 
The moment Iran would buy 150 of these KSA will buy 3 times more
Is this all you know about KSA?

On topic I only say.... some people are cursed that they can't speak truth, even when they see it with their own eyes.
I assume non of the members commenting here had ever traveled in the region.
Iran would be the one of least developed country in region.
Just compare it with its Neighbors... other than Afghanistan every one else more developed.
1- Turkey.
2- Azerbaijan
3- Turkmenistan
4- Bahrain
5- UAE
6- Saudi Arabia
7- Kuwait

I have been to all of above listed states, incl. Iran except Kuwait... so I know who stands where

Iran is only developed in spreading trouble in the region.
 
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Yes. Maybe. One of the biggest exports of Turkey is textile. Mostly underwear and bras and such stuff. They do not have any nuclear technology. They can not launch a satellite into space. They do not have missile technology. They tried to build a drone and designed it too heavy to fly, so had to beg Israelis to redesign it for them but still it has not become operational. They even buy their battery powered hand launched drones from Israel.

So yeah, overall they are very advanced. After all they are in NATO and being in NATO and getting American military aid does help.
-Yes one of the biggest export goods are Textiles alongside Electronics and Automotive, still better than having 80% of export goods being curde oil and the second biggest export good the Oil products...

-Not having nuclear technology or not being able to launch sattelites into orbit that eventually fall down a couple months later doesnt mean you are backwards, in fact a lot developed countries dont have those too either.

-About Anka, i dont know where you got that it not being able to fly or ''begging'' Israel to re design it, it actualy has HD video material that shows it flying unlike Shahed.

And lastly if we are in such a terrible state and still overall more advanced than you, as you admitted it in your own post, then your situation must be quite frustrating for you which might also explain your baseless rant as a response to a pro Turkish comment from a Russian which you consider your ally.

Maybe you should just do your Think tank analyses on stuff you actually know something about, keep your emotions low, it looks ridiculous on someone having a Think Tank title. :)

Btw: can you pls eloborate the US military aid part that apparently is so big that it made us more advanced than Iran, you obviously know more than Turks about this.
 
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Yes. Maybe. One of the biggest exports of Turkey is textile. Mostly underwear and bras and such stuff. They do not have any nuclear technology. They can not launch a satellite into space. They do not have missile technology. They tried to build a drone and designed it too heavy to fly, so had to beg Israelis to redesign it for them but still it has not become operational. They even buy their battery powered hand launched drones from Israel.

So yeah, overall they are very advanced. After all they are in NATO and being in NATO and getting American military aid does help.

The "Most Advanced Technologically and Scientifically" or "Most developed Economically" are two different things here.

Economically we can not compare a nation under the harshest economic sanctions in last 4 decades with other countries which had free access to world markets and had no bounds to progress economically.

so, if you ask me as an economist which Muslim country has the most developed and successful ECONOMY, I would instantly remove Iran from the list as it is not neither scientific nor fair to put Iran in a comparison with a bunch of countries who never seen a day of sanction.

Despite this, success in Economy is not only measured by how much GNI or GDP that nation produce per capital. A country with nearly %100 of its revenues coming from pure Crude Oil is not a successful nation economically.

If tomorrow we discover OIL in Saudi or Qatari or Kuwaiti scale in a poor country like Afghanistan, then it is more than easy to ask couple of multi-national oil companies to go there... extract the oil and sell it to international markets... Afghanistan in couple of years will become one of the richest and will have very high GDP numbers...but this really makes them successful economically??

Among all oil exporting nations, there are few who deserve a "Successful" label. Norway, Canada did a great job while also exporting oil. Except these two, I can point to UAE is the only relatively successful country when the oil is considered. Few were successful creating GDP from non oil sources. Turkey and Malaysia are the best two. Iran despite all the 4 decades of economic sanctions + a Revolution + an 8 years long devastating war is still doing a relatively good job. Iran despite all the hardship still is considered an Upper-Middle High Human Development Index nation. A country that produces 1.3 Trillions of PPP dollars locally (Nearly 450 Billions in International Dollars as Iranian Rial lost 2 third of its value due to economic war). Iranians still enjoy a $16500 per capital GDP by Purchasing Parity in 2014. So, Malaysia and Turkey are the most successful economically when Iran is out the list.

So, economically I would list the most developed Muslim countries as follow;

- Malaysia
- Turkey
- UAE
- Lebanon
- Kazakistan
- Indonasia
- Iran (Although it is not right to compare Iranian economy as it was under harshest economic sanctions for 4 decades)
- Algeria
and others

Now, "The Most Advanced Technologically and Scientifically" list is as follow;

- Iran
- Turkey
- Malaysia
- Indonasia
- Kazakistan
- others are not that important in this field

When we want to study a nation's technological and scientific position you should consider a big package. It is not only space, Air defense Systems, submarines, frigates, missiles, advanced radars, etc... A country needs to be advanced in pharmaceuticals, Chemical engineering, Stem cells, Nano technology, Composites, Medicine, biology and ect... When all scientific and technological aspects are considered Iran with no doubt is well ahead of all Islamic nations... It is also worth mentioning that having a Western or Eastern company coming to let's say... Turkey or UAE opening a weaponry factory complex with all its important positions...doing all the job..from designing to production and testing using their western experts is not advancement... It is only Assemble and Fabricating...

so, economically, only two are relatively advanced (as non of them are world class advanced) and scientifically and Technologically Iran is decades ahead of all Muslim nations...
 
Can we see your sources :pop:

Of course. My pleasure.

"
Literacy Surge
Case in point: In the three and a half decades since the Islamic Revolution, there's been an unprecedented surge in female literacy and a passionate feminist movement during a most unexpected era.

On the eve of the revolution, the overall literacy rate for the female population in Iran stood at just over 35 percent. In 2007, it was an astonishing 80 percent.

Iran currently exhibits one of the highest female-to-male ratios at the primary school level among all sovereign nations.

The trend towards feminization additionally extends to higher education, where women have begun to outnumber men by a ratio of 127/100.

Evidence suggests that a key factor at play in all this was the eradication of coeducation.

While no studies have been conducted on this subject in Iran, a plethora of studies in Western nations since the 1990s suggest single-sex schools lead to increased confidence, academic engagement, class participation, higher levels of achievement, a stronger sense of identity, as well as better performance in math and sciences. In many ways, for young women born and raised in a patriarchal society, the benefits associated with this type of learning environment are priceless.

Amid this flourishing of women's literary empowerment, the veil, hailed by the late Khomeini as the "flag of the revolution," has lost its initial allure. In a recent interview, his granddaughter Zahra Eshraghi stated "I am sorry that the chador (veil) was forced on women. People have just lost their respect for it."

Full article: In Iran, Keep Your Eye on Jump in Female Literacy | Womens eNews

Surprising Facts about Iranian Society


Literacy rate:

In 2006 the United Nation announced Iran as the 9th in line of the highest rate of literacy among all nations. 82% of the Iranian adult population is now literate, well ahead of the regional average of 62%. This rate increases to 97% among young adults (aged between 15 and 24) without any gender discrepancy.

A Literacy Corps was established in 1963 to send educated conscripts to villages. During its first 10 years, the corps helped 2.2 million urban children and 600,000 adults become literate. This corps was shut down with the Islamic Revolution. In mid 80s the corps re-established and continued its work.

Higher Education:

Iran has 92 universities, 512 online University branches, and 56 research and technology institutes around the country. There are currently some 3.7 million university students in Iran. 1 million of them are medical students. 31% of them studying in Engineering and construction programs, one of the highest rates in the world.

In 2011, majority of students (65%) enrolled in Iranian Universities were women. Each year, 20% of government spending and 5% of GDP goes to education, a higher rate than most other developing countries. 50% of education spending is devoted to secondary education and 21% of the annual state education budget is devoted to the provision of tertiary education.

Surprising Facts about Iranian Society | Fellowship of Reconciliation


Iranian Women Under the Islamic Republic


In some ways, women have enjoyed significant gains under the Islamic Republic of Iran. Nowhere is this more true than in education. In 1976, on the eve of the Revolution, the
female literacy rate was a mere 35 percent. Despite the turmoil of the revolution and the imposed war with Iraq, by 1986 this rate had risen to 52 percent. Today, Iranian girls between the ages of 15 and 24 enjoy near universal literacy.


These gains are also reflected in education levels, which have greatly improved as part of the IRI’s commitment to providing universal education. For example, the female enrollment rate for primary education institutions is actually higher than it is for males. Women also graduate from their primary education programs at the same rate as their male counterparts. And despite new restrictions on what they can study, Iranian women are also strong participants in secondary education, with the female general enrollment rate in secondary education about 86 percent of the male rate.



In many ways, the high female education rate also extends to employment, especially since 1992 when the High Council of the Cultural Revolution adopted a new set of employment policies for women. Although women are unemployed at a rate of roughly twice that of men, one-third of doctors, 60 percent of civil servants, and 80 percent of teachers in Iran are women, according to the British historian Michael Axworthy.


The (Slow) Rise of Iran’s Women | The Diplomat

Literacy rate, youth female (% of females ages 15-24) | Data | Table

And don't forget there is massive amount of dissembling of truth with regards to Iran in English speaking media and sources similar to how Pakistan gets the sharp short shafting by Western media on account of geopolitics.
 
-Yes one of the biggest export goods are Textiles alongside Electronics and Automotive, still better than having 80% of export goods being curde oil and the second biggest export good the Oil products...

-Not having nuclear technology or not being able to launch sattelites into orbit that eventually fall down a couple months later doesnt mean you are bakwards, in fact a lot developed countries dont have those too either.

-About Anka, i dont know where you got that it not being able to fly or ''begging'' Israel to re design it, it actualy has HD video material that shows it flying unlike Shahed.

And lastly if we are in such a terrible state and still overall more advanced than you, as you admitted it in your own post, then your situation must be quite frustrating for you which might also explain your baseless rant as a response to a pro Turkish comment from a Russian which you consider your ally.

Maybe you should just do your Think tank analyses on stuff you actually know something about, keep your emotions low, it looks ridiculous on someone having a Think Tank title. :)

Btw: can you pls eloborate the US military aid part that apparently is so big that it made us more advanced than Iran, you obviously know more than Turks about this.

As a matter of fact, there's even worse mate :)

Why the west should listen to Putin on Syria | Page 2
 

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