American Muslims celebrate 4th of July

Ehsan said:

American Muslims following the teaching of Prophet Muhammad SAW that “Love of one's homeland (country) is part of faith” celebrate the occasion with their fellow Americans.

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Where Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) said loving your country of birth is part of faith?
lol

as far as i know concept of nationalism is alien to Islam as Islam calls for the ideological bond.

and btw you can still be loyal to Amreeka without all this show off drama.. Loyalty is following and respecting the laws of land

Ehsan said:

And you know what I think you should appreciate the fact that these "non-Muslims" are out there spending their time and money to show a good name of "your religion" is it that bad ?



But what you said basically meant what o wrote. Let me explain so if they remove their organization name would you just suddenly accept them as Muslims ? And if they have the org name the you think they are trying to separate themselves from the mainstream Muslim community.

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Suit yourself. I am not into this kind of debate. I have also lived for 5 years in States and so long one pays the tax and does not break the law, he is not bothered by anyone. I for one never had to put up banners to prove my loyalty to States and my kids are US citizens.

Raja.Pakistani said:

Where Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) said loving your country of birth is part of faith?
lol

as far as i know concept of nationalism is alien to Islam as Islam calls for the ideological bond.

and btw you can still be loyal to Amreeka without all this show off drama.. Loyalty is following and respecting the laws of land

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syedali73 said:

Suit yourself. I am not into this kind of debate. I have also lived for 5 years in States and so long one pays the tax and does not break the law, he is not bothered by anyone. I for one never had to put up banners to prove my loyalty to States and my kids are US citizens.

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Well the same reason Pakistanis celebrate 14 August and Sikhs and Hindus and other minorities put up banners and show support for Pakistan and with the rise of Islamophobia in the U.S. And Europe it's no surprise that a campaign like this would help dismiss the misconceptions a lot of Americans have about Islam and Muslims. Now tell me if that's a bad thing. Kind of same way ChrisitianAid and Islamic Relief or US Aid works and as for the organization name there are lot of different Muslims organizations for starters look up ISNA, MCB , CAIR , AIC

Ehsan said:

Well the same reason Pakistanis celebrate 14 August and Sikhs and Hindus and other minorities put up banners and show support for Pakistan and with the rise of Islamophobia in the U.S. And Europe it's no surprise that a campaign like this would help dismiss the misconceptions a lot of Americans have about Islam and Muslims. Now tell me if that's a bad thing. Kind of same way ChrisitianAid and Islamic Relief or US Aid works and as for the organization name there are lot of different Muslims organizations for starters look up ISNA, MCB , CAIR , AIC

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It is not bad but unnecessary. Banners, slogans, and printed T-shirts wont change nothing but how a person behaves in that particular society. As I said, during my stay in US, I did not have to prove my innocence to any American, nobody asked me, I explained to no one. In States, it is in very bad taste to ask who you are and which religion you follow. You are free to do what you like though.

Ehsan said:

And you know what I think you should appreciate the fact that these "non-Muslims" are out there spending their time and money to show a good name of "your religion" is it that bad ?

But what you said basically meant what o wrote. Let me explain so if they remove their organization name would you just suddenly accept them as Muslims ? And if they have the org name the you think they are trying to separate themselves from the mainstream Muslim community.

Click to expand...

This is the kind of crap we laugh at you people about. The thread was about Muslims being Americans and celebrating the independence day (sects wise, typical Americans don't really care, nor should you). Somehow, you people bring in this separation and negativity that the West has gotten sick and tired of.

Do you have the authority to declare anyone Muslim or Non-Muslim? I'd love to hear it. NO ONE should have the right to talk down on other humans, whether they are Muslims of some sect you don't like, or Christians or Hindus of some denomination or cast others don't like. Religion is a PERSONAL matter. When a human talks to God, its between him and his lord. Not him, the media, this online forum and God. So PLEASE, have some fukking respect for others who are humans too. Let the Lord decide who is what when he wants to. You have 0 right to be talking like this. Keep your sects to your homeland, I am sure they workout great there, check out the mess in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Saudia, and if you still don't get the picture, it is people like you, who's mentality is SO thick minded and extremist like that they've not accomplished shiit but caused extremism across the globe.

Opinions like these, that represent intensity, extremist mentality and belittle other humans, should be banned and the members should be removed permanently if they don't adhere to the rules. Its the radical-ism I see in your post that has caused hundreds of thousands innocents to die, majority of them, due to sects and extremist idiots who think God gave them the authority to declare who's right or wrong. People like such, should go to mental rehab for a year!

Ehsan said:

Well the same reason Pakistanis celebrate 14 August and Sikhs and Hindus and other minorities put up banners and show support for Pakistan and with the rise of Islamophobia in the U.S. And Europe it's no surprise that a campaign like this would help dismiss the misconceptions a lot of Americans have about Islam and Muslims. Now tell me if that's a bad thing. Kind of same way ChrisitianAid and Islamic Relief or US Aid works and as for the organization name there are lot of different Muslims organizations for starters look up ISNA, MCB , CAIR , AIC

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You attributed something to Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) thats why i asked that where he said any such thing which you have mentioned in your opening post. Islam is not against loving your country but loving your country is not part of faith

Secondly do you think this group of few people would change the perception of whole american community ..I dont think so and as i said you should less worry what others think about you because you cannot please all people as there are still people out there who will judge you based on your race , colour and religion and they dont judge you based on nationality which is a piece of paper. British Asian will remain asian for native white british no matter how many generation of them born in britain

Viper0011. said:

This is the kind of crap we laugh at you people about. The thread was about Muslims being Americans and celebrating the independence day (sects wise, typical Americans don't really care, nor should you). Somehow, you people bring in this separation and negativity that the West has gotten sick and tired of.

Do you have the authority to declare anyone Muslim or Non-Muslim? I'd love to hear it. NO ONE should have the right to talk down on other humans, whether they are Muslims of some sect you don't like, or Christians or Hindus of some denomination or cast others don't like. Religion is a PERSONAL matter. When a human talks to God, its between him and his lord. Not him, the media, this online forum and God. So PLEASE, have some fukking respect for others who are humans too. Let the Lord decide who is what when he wants to. You have 0 right to be talking like this. Keep your sects to your homeland, I am sure they workout great there, check out the mess in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Saudia, and if you still don't get the picture, it is people like you, who's mentality is SO thick minded and extremist like that they've not accomplished shiit but caused extremism across the globe.

Opinions like these, that represent intensity, extremist mentality and belittle other humans, should be banned and the members should be removed permanently if they don't adhere to the rules. Its the radical-ism I see in your post that has caused hundreds of thousands innocents to die, majority of them, due to sects and extremist idiots who think God gave them the authority to declare who's right or wrong. People like such, should go to mental rehab for a year!

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I am going to assume you are confusing me with other posters as i am not the one who is promoting sectarniasm and i was just trying to reply to other posts in a manner that would be easier for them to understand with their point of view. I completely agree with what you have said.

Raja.Pakistani said:

You attributed something to Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) thats why i asked that where he said any such thing which you have mentioned in your opening post. Islam is not against loving your country but loving your country is not part of faith

Secondly do you think this group of few people would change the perception of whole american community ..I dont think so and as i said you should less worry what others think about you because you cannot please all people as there are still people out there who will judge you based on your race , colour and religion and they dont judge you based on nationality which is a piece of paper. British Asian will remain asian for native white british no matter how many generation of them born in britain

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The Hadees is “Love of one’s country is a part of faith” (Sakhavi; Safinat al-Bihar, vol. 8, pg. 525; Mizan al-Hikmah, Hadith # 21928).

Second you might disagree with what they are doing but if they want to show their Loyalty and support for their country which i assume in your view is nothing bad or illegal or un islamic i say you, me or we shouldn't judge.

Ehsan said:

I am going to assume you are confusing me with other posters as i am not the one who is promoting sectarniasm and i was just trying to reply to other posts in a manner that would be easier for them to understand with their point of view. I completely agree with what you have said.



The Hadees is “Love of one’s country is a part of faith” (Sakhavi; Safinat al-Bihar, vol. 8, pg. 525; Mizan al-Hikmah, Hadith # 21928).

Second you might disagree with what they are doing but if they want to show their Loyalty and support for their country which i assume in your view is nothing bad or illegal or un islamic i say you, me or we shouldn't judge.

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Nowadays mawdoo’ (fabricated) ahaadeeth, false reports and made-up stories have become widespread. Many people have become used to repeating these reports without checking whether they are saheeh and without examining their real nature.

This is haraam according to sharee’ah and is an insult to common sense.

These ahaadeeth are falsely attributed to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). It is not permissible to narrate them or quote them without clearly stating that they are false.

Regarding the hadeeth: حُبُّ الْوَطَنِ مِنَ الإِيمَانِ (Hubbul-Watan Min al-Eemaan)

Translation: “Love of one’s homeland (country) is from faith”

Source: Kashf al-Khafa’ wa Muzil al-Ilbas (1102), al-Silsilah al-Hadeeth ad-Da’eefah (36) and reported by al-Saghaanee in his al-Mawdhoo’at (81)

The above hadeeth is not the saying of Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wasallam) and is a very good example of fabrication and falsehood which are attributed to the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wasallam). It is mentioned by the scholars in their books as an example of Hadeeth fabrication and lies.

● The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta’ was asked regarding the hadeeth, they replied:

ما ذكرته من الجمل ليست بأحاديث عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم، وإنما هي كلمات جرت على ألسنة الناس.

وبالله التوفيق. وصلى الله على نبينا محمد، وآله وصحبه وسلم.

“The phrases you mentioned are not Hadith reported from the Prophet (peace be upon him); they are just sayings that people have become accustomed to using.

Syed.Ali.Haider said:

@Irfan Baloch @Oscar Sirs, is the title of the thread correct, given the OP's content?

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what is the issue here? pictures and the title dont contradict each other

oh wait. is the issue with the faith of these Pakistanis who organised these gatherings?
I dont see any issue as thats what they are recognised in America.

syedali73 said:

It is not bad but unnecessary. Banners, slogans, and printed T-shirts wont change nothing but how a person behaves in that particular society. As I said, during my stay in US, I did not have to prove my innocence to any American, nobody asked me, I explained to no one. In States, it is in very bad taste to ask who you are and which religion you follow. You are free to do what you like though.

Click to expand...

expression has its own value just like normal behaviours too.
it has a token significance and an excuse to show how you feel about things

Raja.Pakistani said:

Nowadays mawdoo’ (fabricated) ahaadeeth, false reports and made-up stories have become widespread. Many people have become used to repeating these reports without checking whether they are saheeh and without examining their real nature.

This is haraam according to sharee’ah and is an insult to common sense.

These ahaadeeth are falsely attributed to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). It is not permissible to narrate them or quote them without clearly stating that they are false.

Regarding the hadeeth: حُبُّ الْوَطَنِ مِنَ الإِيمَانِ (Hubbul-Watan Min al-Eemaan)

Translation: “Love of one’s homeland (country) is from faith”

Source: Kashf al-Khafa’ wa Muzil al-Ilbas (1102), al-Silsilah al-Hadeeth ad-Da’eefah (36) and reported by al-Saghaanee in his al-Mawdhoo’at (81)

The above hadeeth is not the saying of Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wasallam) and is a very good example of fabrication and falsehood which are attributed to the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhi wasallam). It is mentioned by the scholars in their books as an example of Hadeeth fabrication and lies.

● The Permanent Committee for Scholarly Research and Ifta’ was asked regarding the hadeeth, they replied:

ما ذكرته من الجمل ليست بأحاديث عن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم، وإنما هي كلمات جرت على ألسنة الناس.

وبالله التوفيق. وصلى الله على نبينا محمد، وآله وصحبه وسلم.

“The phrases you mentioned are not Hadith reported from the Prophet (peace be upon him); they are just sayings that people have become accustomed to using.

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what is the issue here?

being peaceful or violent in a predominately non Muslim country? and looking up Islamic sources to justify whether we should bully or not bully the general public? how about using common sense and live and let live philosphy?

@Irfan Baloch
Can u open a PM for me please?

Irfan Baloch said:

what is the issue here? pictures and the title dont contradict each other

oh wait. is the issue with the faith of these Pakistanis who organised these gatherings?
I dont see any issue as thats what they are recognised in America.

Click to expand...

Since America is all inclusive, then this thread should suffice:

Happy 4th of July

Why make another one just to highlight one particular subset?

Well,First of all the heading must be: Adhmiya community celebrating 4th July in united states-
However,this argument is valid if this thread was initiated by non-ahmadiya. However,since ahmadis believe that they are Muslims and PDF rules says no religious discussions allowed,therefore one can't initiate such argument as it will be redirecting again towards such debates of Ahmadis being Muslims or not!
Regards

Viper0011. said:

This is the kind of crap we laugh at you people about. The thread was about Muslims being Americans and celebrating the independence day (sects wise, typical Americans don't really care, nor should you). Somehow, you people bring in this separation and negativity that the West has gotten sick and tired of.

Do you have the authority to declare anyone Muslim or Non-Muslim? I'd love to hear it. NO ONE should have the right to talk down on other humans, whether they are Muslims of some sect you don't like, or Christians or Hindus of some denomination or cast others don't like. Religion is a PERSONAL matter. When a human talks to God, its between him and his lord. Not him, the media, this online forum and God. So PLEASE, have some fukking respect for others who are humans too. Let the Lord decide who is what when he wants to. You have 0 right to be talking like this. Keep your sects to your homeland, I am sure they workout great there, check out the mess in Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen and Saudia, and if you still don't get the picture, it is people like you, who's mentality is SO thick minded and extremist like that they've not accomplished shiit but caused extremism across the globe.

Opinions like these, that represent intensity, extremist mentality and belittle other humans, should be banned and the members should be removed permanently if they don't adhere to the rules. Its the radical-ism I see in your post that has caused hundreds of thousands innocents to die, majority of them, due to sects and extremist idiots who think God gave them the authority to declare who's right or wrong. People like such, should go to mental rehab for a year!

Click to expand...

I have a question..why Christianity and Jewish religion are further sub-divided into sects?

regards

Syed.Ali.Haider said:

Since America is all inclusive, then this thread should suffice:

Happy 4th of July

Why make another one just to highlight one particular subset?

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I want to agree but I will also like the thread as well

you see, its a show that hey "we Muslims" are also celebrating like the rest and there is nothing unusual here so those who claim otherwise are wrong and dont represent our view.

many times you get an ignorant ranting and commentry from people in the west saying

why Muslim majority doesnt condemn the Islamists terrorism?
why dont they respect our flag or why dont they try to intigrate?


well we do but we dont get the mention, so I see the motive here. getting all the bad press as it is .. so saying that a Muslim saved the lives of 6 Jews during Paris carnage or a Muslims celebrating 4th of July or a Muslim standing up to the thugs to save a Jew in the underground vindicates the "silent" Muslim majority that doesnt get the coverage.

just thinking.

if these guys were burning the American flag instead like that Dylann Roof then the news title wont have been Asian Americans burning the American flag or jsut American citizens burning American flag but "MUZLIMS2 burning American flag.

PS not bitching, I agree with your point in principle but I do see a point in the title.

Happy 4th of July by the way

over and out.

Irfan Baloch said:

what is the issue here? pictures and the title dont contradict each other

oh wait. is the issue with the faith of these Pakistanis who organised these gatherings?
I dont see any issue as thats what they are recognised in America.


expression has its own value just like normal behaviours too.
it has a token significance and an excuse to show how you feel about things


what is the issue here?

being peaceful or violent in a predominately non Muslim country? and looking up Islamic sources to justify whether we should bully or not bully the general public? how about using common sense and live and let live philosphy?

Click to expand...

SherayPunjab said:

We Americans celebrate our Independence day, and equate the lights of the fireworks with the Salala checkpoint that our forces lit up so magnificently.

@Irfan Baloch

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good for you