Vertical Launch Astra Based Air Defence System (LLQRM) Under Development

SAAB has got gripen NG because they build various VIggens, Gripen A,B,C,D,E and have reached to Gripen NG.

Indian Patriot said:

We never had a world class aircarft irrespective of MK1 or MK100. Brazilians can make Embraer jets and other stuff what is stopping India?

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Now your pessimism reached to a level of Idiocy. Mk1 in itself is a good aircraft , Mk2 shall be very good and From Mk2 onward it will be world class. We have proven this in the area of Space and missile technology. There is no reason why the success can not be replicated in Aviation?

Indian Patriot said:

LOL you are a sweet cupcake.

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You are still here.I thought you are preparing your " Research Papers ".

Please share some of your " Research Papers "

kṣamā said:

Well then here are my facts:-
Gripen has 8 incidents in which 5 are are full hull loss accidents. LCA (even when in Indian hands) has no incident till now and as many respected posters have repeatedly pointed out, LCA program has been running for a very very long time. Still no incident. Also LCA is repeatedly performing well in high altitude areas and at sea level. Where as Gripen failed in high altitude test during MMRCA. Also consider the fact that foreign stuff are subjected to very lenient checks as compared to local stuff (eg: T90 vs Arjun) as foreign stuff bring kick backs.

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Wow, the keyboard nationalist is back eh?

First of all these are your personal opinion not facts.

Gripen has accidents, so did F-22 and MKI. So now Tejas is better than Gripen, MKI and F-22? LCA has been running for a many long time because India cannot still produce a satisfactory aircraft that can fulfil its needs. Aircraft are supposed to be running for a long time you self-confessed noob, not the aircraft development program. Let the LCA be inducted, let there be regular flying hours and then we will see how many crashes take place.

I refuse to believe Gripen failed in high-altitude test. And where is your proof that foreign goods are subject to lenient checks? Why are you pulling out stuff from your a$$? Now you believe T-90 is an inferior tank compared to Arjun. ROFLOL!!!

Gripen is in service with Sweden, Brazil. Hungary, Thailand, Czechoslovakia, South Africa. How many countries have even shown interest in LCA? Do they also get kick backs for not buying the WORLD'S BEST FIGHTER LCA?

• Gripen is a net-centric fighter highly developed secure and multi-frequency data link, providing total situational awareness for the pilot in all roles.
• Gripen has a fully integrated avionic mission system operating on five 1553B digital data bus highways. This provides total sensor fusion, resulting in enhanced combat capability guaranteeing precision delivery of smart weapons.
• Gripen has an advanced fully digital cockpit layout with three large colour, Multi-Functional Displays (MFD) and Hands-On-Throttle-And-Stick (HOTAS) provide the pilot with a superior combat advantage
• Gripen has combination of low radar, IR and visual signatures, along with the long range PS05 multimode radar and sensor fusion, including world leading new generation weapon integration, ensure a high hit-ratio in long range engagements.
• Gripen’s high operational availability, rapid turnaround and minimal support requirements lead to sustained high sortie rates, giving Commanders the ability to meet the most demanding operations with minimum resources.

How does the Tejas compare against these and much more?

kṣamā said:

As for your point, taking off from un prepared runways, well it can takeoff from roads, sure, But do provide proof for taking off from un-prepared runways. Also this requirement or feature will not have much significance for LCA as its point defense aircraft. Interestingly mirages can also take off from roads. PAF have successfully done that in past. As matter of fact (Borrowing from what @kaku1 on a different forum ) "What the hell use of landing the plane on the public roads, and this can be done only in emergency. And in emergency every plane can land on road even a Boeing 747" also IAF pilots train for landing and taking from Parallel Taxi Tracks that are around 75 feet wide – half the width of a normal runway.

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Here is your link for Gripen to be able to take off from frozen airfields. Something your precious LCA can never do.

Saab JAS 39 Gripen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anything that the LCA cannot do is obsolete in your eyes, how convenient. Mirage is not an Indian aircraft unless you are saying France is part of India. Gripen can take off land perfectly without having to be grounded like in case of other aircraft. They are designed to be rugged.

kṣamā said:

Ooh so we have a research scholar here... Prey put your money where your mouth is and pls point us one research paper you have published, just one. Online talk is cheap, waana show you are a big shot, prove it. We will happily accept if any of your claims hold water but donn think people out here are fools. Some guys, here really know what they are talking.(I do not claim to be one of them, but I can carry my own self.)

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It is pray not prey. Learn how to spell first before you ask your superiors for research papers. My field of research and my research papers are none of your fcuking business cupcake. If you had studied beyond school you would realise that Ph.D scholar's research subject is confidential and research papers are not wedding invitations to be distributed carelessly.

When punks call INSAS a good rifle, LCA better than Gripen, Indian Arjun better than T-90 etc. it is evident how much deluded they are.

HariPrasad said:

Now your pessimism reached to a level of Idiocy.

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Name me ONE world class aircraft made by India and I will admit I was wrong. Else just shut up.

HariPrasad said:

Mk1 in itself is a good aircraft , Mk2 shall be very good and From Mk2 onward it will be world class. We have proven this in the area of Space and missile technology. There is no reason why the success can not be replicated in Aviation?

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You are assuming things. MK2 is not yet in production an you are assuming there will be future production as well.

Space and missile had foreign help, same has not been received in aviation yet.

Indian Patriot said:

You are assuming things. MK2 is not yet in production an you are assuming there will be future production as well.

Space and missile had foreign help, same has not been received in aviation yet.

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I am not assuming in Air. We are conceiving MK2 when we have MK1 is in air and in Hand.

We are going to have much better foreign help in aviation compared to Space and Missile technology and i can prove that.

HariPrasad said:

We are going to have much better foreign help in aviation compared to Space and Missile technology and i can prove that.

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prove it. As well as name me the world-class indigenous fighter made in India.

Indian Patriot said:

Name me ONE world class aircraft made by India and I will admit I was wrong. Else just shut up.

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Why are you asking me for something which is not been claimed by me. I say Mk1 is a good aircraft to deal anything in neighborhood. Mk2 shall surpass anything in neighborhood except Russian planes bought by china. From AMCA onward, it shall be absolutely world class.

HariPrasad said:

Why are you asking me for something which is not been claimed by me. I say Mk1 is a good aircraft to deal anything in neighborhood. Mk2 shall surpass anything in neighborhood except Russian planes bought by china. From AMCA onward, it shall be absolutely world class.

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Some of you Indians here call level-headed people "pessimist", "false-flag" and other such names for calling a spade, a spade. India has pathetic record in aviation and the world knows that. LCA is a joke which we are inducting because we cannot manufacture anything better and too much time and money has been invested to write it off as failure. It has become a question of national prestige.

When people point out the obvious some of you attack them.

Let LCA MK.2 come out first. On paper every aircraft is a lethal one. AMCA is still on the drawing board. Let these things come up and fly then we talk about their merits and de-merits.

Indian Patriot said:

prove it. As well as name me the world-class indigenous fighter made in India.

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We got help in developing flight control system from lockhid martin.
We got engine from GE and offer of engine from US,Europe and Russia.
We got Help in Radar From Israel.
We have got A to A Miaaile from Israel and Russia.
Avionics from Israel.
Eject shit from Martin.
Nose cone from Chobham.

HariPrasad said:

We got help in developing flight control system from lockhid martin.
We got engine from GE and offer of engine from US,Europe and Russia.
We got Help in Radar From Israel.
We have got A to A Miaaile from Israel and Russia.
Avionics from Israel.
Eject shit from Martin.
Nose cone from Chobham.

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Are you talking about LCA MK2?

I don't know whether it is a good thing or bad. Almost all critical components are foreign. What is so Indian about the fighter other than the name Tejas? India is not going for joint production but buying technology and assembling it here. This is not how Indian aviation industry will develop, by doing a "screwdriver job". Indian scientists, engineers need to know how to design an aircraft, the engines, solicit the materials needed, research on advanced materials etc. etc. etc.

Which one of that are we doing? Ghanta.

Indian Patriot said:

First of all these are your personal opinion not facts.

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Well then you do not know what "Personal opinion" or "fact" mean. Also get one thing straight, I never mean that Gripen is inferior to LCA or any other platform. I was responding to your way of reasoning. Just on one premise that it can takeoff from a frozen runway it is better than LCA is a flawed line of reasoning. And hence countered by equally flawed response.

Indian Patriot said:

I refuse to believe Gripen failed in high-altitude test

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Ooh so we are basing every thing on personal belief now ?? By the way what you said is "Personal opinion" and what you where replying to was a "fact".

Indian Patriot said:

And where is your proof that foreign goods are subject to lenient checks? Why are you pulling out stuff from your a$$? Now you believe T-90 is an inferior tank compared to Arjun. ROFLOL!!!

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The lack of maturity in you response is a clear indicator of your age and knowledge. and for the proof Here you go... View attachment 179290

Indian Patriot said:

If you had studied beyond school you would realise that Ph.D scholar's research subject is confidential and research papers are not wedding invitations to be distributed carelessly.

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So you have nothing to show !! Well then all of us here are CIA+RAW+MOSAD all combined, we are all sentient beings masqueraded as humans . . . Dude pls donn stoop so low as claiming to be someone who you are definitely not in real life. Another thing, there is a saying "Fruit bearing trees always sway low" in other words people achieving great heights are generally courteous, unlike you.

Indian Patriot said:

Some of you Indians here call level-headed people "pessimist", "false-flag" and other such names for calling a spade, a spade.

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Dude you are not the only "level-headed people" out here. But the way you have been dealing with you criticism out here, is raising many red flags. Many of our fellow compatriots have risen their doubts on many big ticket items lately but not only they give a rock solid explanation for their stand they are courteous enough to back it with factual evidence.

kṣamā said:

Also get one thing straight, I never mean that Gripen is inferior to LCA or any other platform.

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Yes you did. You boasted of facts and demanded facts when you get them you change your tune. You said Gripen crashed 8 times while LCA has a zero record. What you did not reveal was the number of Gripens flying in the air + flying hours and the number of LCA flying+flying hours.

You and your fellow morons are emotional keyboard trolls who cannot digest the truth. If you cannot add anything of value I suggest you play with children your age and don't bother me again.

Just STFU troll.

I did not even bother to read the rest of the cr@p you posted. You are a shameless liar.

Indian Patriot said:

Yes you did. You boasted of facts and demanded facts when you get them yso ou change your tune. You said Gripen crashed 8 times while LCA has a zero record. What you did not reveal was the number of Gripens flying in the air + flying hours and the number of LCA flying+flying hours.

You and your fellow morons are emotional keyboard trolls who cannot digest the truth. If you cannot add anything of value I suggest you play with children your age and don't bother me again.

Just STFU troll.

I did not even bother to read the rest of the cr@p you posted. You are a shameless liar.

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Touchy are we ??
While comparing with Gripen you never mentioned the industrial capability of Sweden to make it's sub system, You never hinted that the current iteration is polished form of it numerous previous version, you never highlighted the point that Gripen too has many foreign sub system but where highly excited to name out each and every foreign sub system in Tejas. I bet you won't even know the Indian subsystems currently keeping the thing flying. Keep the playing field level. Gripen has a long legacy which LCA certainly dose not.

Gripen NG is a marvelous plane, no doubt about it. We have never said LCA is world winning plane. It was our baby step in to aviation and it will be that no matter what people say. This is our learning curve. We are learning and we will improve on it. Yes we are late, yes it is a money pit but so was our Space program at some point of time. Now look where we are in our Space Program. Same will be the case with LCA.

Had you gone through the post you would have had a decent way of replying.

EDIT: First Gripen Crash occurred within 1.75 yrs of its first flight and Tejas had it's first flight on 4th Jan 2001. Gentleman now you can do the math.

kṣamā said:

While comparing with Gripen you never mentioned the industrial capability of Sweden to make it's sub system, You never hinted that the current iteration is polished form of it numerous previous version, you never highlighted the point that Gripen too has many foreign sub system but where highly excited to name out each and every foreign sub system in Tejas. I bet you won't even know the Indian subsystems currently keeping the thing flying. Keep the playing field level. Gripen has a long legacy which LCA certainly dose not.

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The original point here was India cannot build anything on its own, period. Gripen is a Swedish plane and is acknowledged as such by everyone.

Gripen did not take 30 years to come to fruition. Gripen attracted customer interest even when it was in trials. Gripen has better brand value than LCA which is hesitantly inducted by its own family customer IAF. Not even south Asian countries shown any interest.

Level playing field? Then compare yourself with Pakistan. Sweden has a long and accomplished record in manufacture of military arms and India is not even 10% of Sweden.

Indian Patriot said:

The original point here was India cannot build anything on its own, period. Gripen is a Swedish plane and is acknowledged as such by everyone.

Gripen did not take 30 years to come to fruition. Gripen attracted customer interest even when it was in trials. Gripen has better brand value than LCA which is hesitantly inducted by its own family customer IAF. Not even south Asian countries shown any interest.

Level playing field? Then compare yourself with Pakistan. Sweden has a long and accomplished record in manufacture of military arms and India is not even 10% of Sweden.

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True hence the entire premise of comparing Gripen with Tejas was a flawed idea to begin with. PS, do read the edited part of the previous post.

Indian Patriot said:

Yes, in comparison to Tejas it sure is and Grippen is a much better aircraft.

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Yes,you hypocrite.Sweden can use several foreign made components &partner with foreign firms to develop critical technologies like the FBW software to make it a 'much better aircraft'-and you seem to have no problem with that.When India does the same for LCA,you start blabbering about the involvement of 'foreign hands'

Answer me moron, if Tejas is so good why go for MMRCA? MMRCA is the future whereas Tejas is a Mig-21 replacement which will be inducted just to keep up numbers.

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Tejas and MMRCA belong to different categories-LCA can't do everything that Rafale can,even if it is so good-It is designed to be a light fighter in the first place.

Ok "kid", how many squadrons of "Mk.2" is there in IAF. Or at least tell me the progress of Mk.2.

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Check the relevant threads.

If you honestly compare Rafale with LCA then you deserve a tight slap. If Rafale and Tejas are equal then why is Modi going to France asking for Rafales?

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Comprehension issues ? I was not comparing the Rafale & LCA but their development timelines.

Grippen is not the first aircraft Sweden designed and if you are not aware of Swedish weapons don't make a laughing stock of yourself. Bofors is Swedish in case you never realised.

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Thats the whole point dumbass-If sweden,a country with an advanced technological base and years of experience in fighter design buys foreign components & consults foreign companies for their indigenous fighter there is nothing wrong with India doing the same.

You understand "facts"?

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Much better than you troll.

So the Vikramaditya is Indian? The Shamsher strike aircraft, Sindughosh-class submarines, INS Chakra, Brahmos, Bheesma Tank, Sarath APC etc. are all Indian?

I thought they were just Indian names for Gorshkov, Jaguar, Kilo-class, Akula-class, T-90 and BMP-2.

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Who claimed these are indigenous ?Just STFU troll.

And really why accuse the Pakistanis when India is doing the same?

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You need to change your flags quickly.

LOL!! The name Arihant is Indian for sure, rest which components are actually Indian is open for debate.

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Arihant class SSBN was designed at SBC Vizag and L&T.The 83 MW PWR was designed at BARC and a land based prototype was tested at IGCAR Kalpakkam .The control systems are supplied by Tata Strategic Electronics division while the Turbine were supplied by walchandnagar industries .It utilises developed SONARs & can carry a mix of DRDO developed K 4 / K 15 missiles.

Anything more to say ?

I thought India can design every weapon and does not need consultation. Why are you admitting that India needs MASSIVE foreign help in building weapons?

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You have been repeating the same argument again & again-without any proof.Where are the proofs for the 'MASSIVE design assistance' ?

India does not know how to build 28,000 tonne STOVL carrier?

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It was in the late 80s you jerk.And it has nothing to do with IAC 1.

And if India was so self-sufficient

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No one claimed India is self sufficent in defense.

You can't back your claims so the other person is dumb?.

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Any sane mind can deduce that.


The Burden of proof lies on you kid.

Now where is the proof for these claims


'India doesn't have source codes for Brahmos'

'Tejas is a 3.5 gen fighter'

'Indian Ballistic Missiles depend on Russian Assistance '

'There are no Indian components on the Arihant'

Indian Patriot said:

Are you talking about LCA MK2?

I don't know whether it is a good thing or bad. Almost all critical components are foreign. What is so Indian about the fighter other than the name Tejas?

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Do the radar,avionics,FBW count as critical systems ? Or the design itself ?