Export bids for JF-17 Thunder Multirole Lightweight Fighter Aircraft

DrWatson775 said:

Any aircraft in Egypt's hands will mean Israel will get to know it's weak areas soon one way or the other. Intelligence sharing bw Israel and India is well known. Better not in Egyptian hands then. Don't want a repeat of 1967 & 73 and a bad name for the 17s.

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WE already know the specs and details It's all over Internet . Thanks to excited PAF and PLAAF fans

TVVELVEMO$ said:

Looking at this from aviation industry insiders’ perspective:-

Egyptians are worried about JSF/Lightening II induction into IDF. The only viable non-American option seems to be a French one. They have made inquiries with the Russians and may not have been reassured about the PAKFA\FGFA. They are being funded generously by Saudis.

Perhaps, Pakistan can leverage her Chinese & Saudi connections to provide the Egyptians with a comprehensive solution to their problem with induction of JF17 with a baked-in follow-on order of Chinese version of JSF (but twin-engined). All this requires orchestration of a very complex set of negotiations, a test of Pakistan’s closeness to the changing Saudi Monarchy and whether Pakistan can get in on the action in Chinese stealth programs. Such actions will also inform PAF about possible Indian induction of JSF once French/Russian deals wither on the vine.

Pakistan ought to take another look at African nations like Nigeria and Tanzania.
There is a big brouhaha in Abuja about a mutiny. The army unit refused to use weapons that did not work against Boko. Then Nigeria sourced weapons from Pakistan in a hurry. It appears they are to the satisfaction of the soldiers. Pakistan should capitalize on this good publicity and send a marketing team. Pakistan should also be prepared to spend some ‘inducement money’-albeit very discretely and through untraceable banks. It is just the cost of doing business in Nigeria!!!
This comes on the heels of PAF support for Sri Lanka forces in their successful insurgency ops. Pakistan can cement this reputation of the ‘go to guys’ for smallish nations in a pinch against insurgencies where West will not help.

A more promising prospect is Iraq. Pakistan should fulfill the order for 30 trainers promptly and send in her best to set up the facilities/training inside Iraq; preferably Arabic speakers. Iraq desperately needs a platform that can complement the F-16s and bear the brunt of ground targeting ops against Daish/ISIL. A scenario not unlike what Pakistan is beset with at the moment in "ZeA" ops in FATA. All this requires energy and imagination-and an insiders view of aviation. Can Pakistan stop looking in from the outside and get in on the action?

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Dude got ur point what you are telling. Before a day I posted an article on this same issue . The problem is not cost of Jf17 it's lots more cheaper than second hand mirage 2005 but they are looking for more capabilities with less numbers. For instance Egyptian also looking for a squadron of Rafale with Arab funds .

And how will Rafale protect them against JSF?
France will never allow its weapons to be used against Israel.
Chinese or Russian option is better.

Egypt does not need to worry about Israel right now.
Going for a more mature platform (Mirage 2000) instead of JF-17 that is still new in the market is understandable. The first sale would be difficult for JF-17 but once that is done more countries would buy.

Appreciate the acknowledgment- dude. [@Ind4Ever]
To be fair there is more than a point in what I said but YMMV according to your situational awareness.

Maybe you should sit in the private negotiations going on between Egyptians & Dassault to find out if they will "allow" , as you put it, Egypt to use "their" weapons and how they consider their Rafale worthy of counter-stealth. Egyptians already operate Mirage 2000 though. They will be amused to hear how they cannot use those jets in defence of Nation of the Nile. [@nwmalik]

Egyptian Army "always" keeps an eye on Israel just like your army worries about India. Introduction of Stealth in Mid-East has far reaching implications for Egyptian Army as it considers itself the premier Arab force. Lagging behind in the neighborhood has bad consequences-Egypt understands it well and Mastan Khan preaches it eloquently for your nation. [@A2Z]
I did agree with your last comment, in as much as these mega deals have their own downstream beneficial effects for the supplier. Ergo Pakistan should transmutate to a supplier from a customer in the Aviation World.

Bottom line: In order to sell a weapons platform, Titans of Pakistan defence industry must design customized comprehensive ‘package’ built around the Combat aircraft that appeals to the customer; then offer creative financing solutions to close the deal. If Pakistan is in on the Chinese Stealth, it may be useful to allude to it as a selling point. Nations do not just buy guns that fire but guns that come with "insurance policies" for a rainy day.


P.S. Iraqis will appreciate Pakistani trainers who do not mind hanging out at the local Husseinya, while Nigeria has impending elections and the winner will decide - as a wise Boston politician one said "All politics(read deals) is local"………………maybe someone will get my point. Sigh!

Hi,

The choice of a weapon or a weapons system is a frame of mind. What may feel suitable to one may not be enough for the other.

It is just like a computer---not what a computer can do for you---but what can you do with a computer. I think that Egypt will be happy with a late blk 2 or a Blk 3 with an aesa radar system and the complete accompanying package.

If Egypt still thinks that Jf 17 blk 3 with aesa is not good enough---it should consider J 10 C with aesa radar----. Now if Egypt has to seek assistance in funding of this aircraft from brotherly countries----then these are the best cost effective and potent options.

Numbers have a strength of their own---but they have to have some potency a well.

The next step would be to get in line for the J31----.

The buyer comes with a certain frame of mind---it has certain pre-conceived notions---what he wants---it is a matter of his ego---it is a matter f his manhood r womanhood----it is just what he has decided to and does not want anything else.

That is where the job of a good sales person comes in----who sings along with the needs and wants of the customer but makes him tag along and shares with him what other options can do for him.

In the 80's---the U S offered Pakistan with A10'a and Hawkeye---Pakistan refused---a bad bad mistake----hawkeye later proved to be an impressive aircraft and so did the A10---even though A10 was not what Pakistan was asking for---but its ground strike capabilities were only second to the B52---.

Unlike Israel / Egypt---Pakistan is sitting on a powder keg---so what Pakistan's needs are that of a 'now' kind of problem.

Where as Pakistan is being strangulated without a potent air force at this time---Egypt does not face the same problem for the time being---.

MastanKhan said:

Hi,

The choice of a weapon or a weapons system is a frame of mind. What may feel suitable to one may not be enough for the other.

It is just like a computer---not what a computer can do for you---but what can you do with a computer. I think that Egypt will be happy with a late blk 2 or a Blk 3 with an aesa radar system and the complete accompanying package.

If Egypt still thinks that Jf 17 blk 3 with aesa is not good enough---it should consider J 10 C with aesa radar----. Now if Egypt has to seek assistance in funding of this aircraft from brotherly countries----then these are the best cost effective and potent options.

Numbers have a strength of their own---but they have to have some potency a well.

The next step would be to get in line for the J31----.

The buyer comes with a certain frame of mind---it has certain pre-conceived notions---what he wants---it is a matter of his ego---it is a matter f his manhood r womanhood----it is just what he has decided to and does not want anything else.

That is where the job of a good sales person comes in----who sings along with the needs and wants of the customer but makes him tag along and shares with him what other options can do for him.

In the 80's---the U S offered Pakistan with A10'a and Hawkeye---Pakistan refused---a bad bad mistake----hawkeye later proved to be an impressive aircraft and so did the A10---even though A10 was not what Pakistan was asking for---but its ground strike capabilities were only second to the B52---.

Unlike Israel / Egypt---Pakistan is sitting on a powder keg---so what Pakistan's needs are that of a 'now' kind of problem.

Where as Pakistan is being strangulated without a potent air force at this time---Egypt does not face the same problem for the time being---.

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j-10 is Israel's Lavi, Egyptians won't buy it.

China could export a modern fighter jet to developing countries to take a bigger share of the international military aircraft market and boost its aviation industry, experts have suggested.

　　"The FC-1 Fierce Dragon can meet the air defense tasks of most developing nations that can't afford more advanced, fifth-generation fighter jets," said Wang Ya'nan, deputy editor-in-chief of Aerospace Knowledge magazine.

　　"A lot of developing nations' air forces have neither menace from stealth aircraft nor requirements to launch long-distance airstrikes. For them, the FC-1 is a very sensible choice because it is reasonably priced and has a relatively strong capability," he told China Daily.

　　The FC-1 Fierce Dragon is a fourth-generation, lightweight multirole fighter jet developed by Aviation Industry Corp of China with assistance from Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, the leading aviation company in Pakistan. The aircraft is called the JF-17 Thunder in Pakistan.

　　Wang said the aircraft has huge potential to be improved and upgraded, as China has gained rich expertise and experience in the fields of composite materials, engines and avionics that can be adopted on the FC-1.

　　"Using cutting-edge composite materials to upgrade the aircraft will reduce the fuselage's weight, enabling designers to adopt a stealth airframe," Wang said. "In addition, AVIC can replace the plane's Russian-made RD-93 turbofan with China's latest engine."

　　Extensive upgrading has been effective in reattracting potential buyers. It also allows a manufacturer to diversify its product portfolio and present multiple variants of a plane to the market, according to Wang.

　　"China should also consider leasing the FC-1 to nations that are unable to afford the full price or are not familiar with Chinese weapons," he said.

　　Du Wenlong, a senior researcher at the People's Liberation Army's Academy of Military Science, said the FC-1 boasts a high price-performance ratio and can be ranked among the top lightweight fighter jets of its kind.

　　He said that in addition to aerial combat, it can perform airstrikes on ships or ground targets at a low operational cost, suggesting "it is the best choice for small and medium-sized countries."

　　The experts' comments come amid speculation in Western media that the aircraft will soon have new buyers.

　　According to Air Commodore Khalid Mahmood from the Pakistan Air Force, who heads sales and marketing for the fighter jet, the joint sales team from China and Pakistan is "in advanced negotiations with a Middle Eastern country (over sales of the FC-1), but the political situation there has delayed the deal".

　　Mahmood was speaking to Bloomberg last month in Zhuhai, Guangdong province, at the 10th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition.

　　According to a Burma Times report in June, Myanmar is looking to obtain a license to produce the FC-1 domestically.

　　Last year, managers of Argentine aerospace company Fabrica Argentina de Aviones told reporters at the 50th International Paris Air Show that they had had multiple discussions with Chinese officials over potential coproduction of the FC-1 combat aircraft.

　　Fabrica Argentina de Aviones is the South American country's main aircraft manufacturer.

　　According to Defense Industry Daily, an online trade publication, Argentina is interested in the plane because it can carry C-802 subsonic and CM-400AKG supersonic anti-ship missiles,

　　A report in World Tribune, an online newspaper based in the United States, said Saudi Arabian officials have begun to review the FC-1 project and are considering becoming a partner in it.

　　Other prospective operators are reported to include Algeria, Malaysia, Nigeria and Sudan.

　　While courting potential clients, AVIC has also started to develop the two-seat version of the FC-1 and plans to introduce it to the international market in three to four years, according to Ma Zhi-ping, general manager of China National Aero-Technology Import and Export Corp.

　　"Many potential buyers have told us they hope we can produce a two-seater variant of the FC-1, and we are in the middle of purchasing negotiations with several countries," Ma said.

　　Yang Wei, chief designer of the FC-1 at AVIC, told China Daily earlier his team will gradually upgrade the aircraft to give it partial stealth capability and aerial refueling equipment.

　　However, Wang from Aerospace Knowledge said that having advanced capability is far from sufficient to secure a contract.

　　"The export of military aircraft, especially fighter jets, is often influenced by a host of geopolitical factors," he explained.

China Military Online English Edition

New World said:

j-10 is Israel's Lavi, Egyptians won't buy it.

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That is just what others say both China and Israel denies this, though there are some resemblances. Even if it was why would that effect Egypt?

Just a note:-

When there was initial Egyptian interest in the JF-17 the UAE M2K-9 deal was still being negotiated as the UAE looked like it was going for the Rafale at the time (as was Egypt in 2011, it was blocked due to political instability). I think it's a bit too early to judge whether the EAF has lost interest or not.

A2Z said:

That is just what others say both China and Israel denies this, though there are some resemblances. Even if it was why would that effect Egypt?

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The main competitor of EAF is IAF, So, it matters..

Frogman said:

Just a note:-

When there was initial Egyptian interest in the JF-17 the UAE M2K-9 deal was still being negotiated as the UAE looked like it was going for the Rafale at the time (as was Egypt in 2011, it was blocked due to political instability). I think it's a bit too early to judge whether the EAF has lost interest or not.

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Hi,

Egypt is not facing an immediate threat at this time---things are peaceful in a way.

If for any reason Egypt is considering the J31 in the coming 6 to 8 years time---then it would be prudent to seek the JF17 ---some Blk 2's and some Blk3's with air refueling and aesa for blk 3's and then progress onto the J31's.

Now that would be a paradigm shift in Egypt's weapons procurement for which it will have to decide which way it wants to go before it procures the Rafales.

MastanKhan said:

In the aircraft manufacturing area----have smartly turned out technicians---short hair on the scalp---clean shaven----no Dhoti or Shalwar Kameez ---. Technicians who appear to mean only business.

No familes---ie spouses in the manufacturing areas---. Tell the politicians to stay away from marketing the aircraft.

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You just took away all basic ingredients of a DESI product Woh Pakistani he kia jo apnay kaam ko serious business samjh kar justify karay

New World said:

The main competitor of EAF is IAF, So, it matters..

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If that was the case then Egypt should not have purchased F-16 and then AH-64 as well. F-16 is the back bone of both the airforces.

Egypt receives a lot of US aid and the weapons they will get is dependant on American nod of approval.

A2Z said:

If that was the case then Egypt should not have purchased F-16 and then AH-64 as well. F-16 is the back bone of both the airforces.

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IAF is using F-16 and AH-64 with know how but there are lots of thing which IAF doesn't know about F-16 and AH-64, which which manufacturer and Designer knows..