The Great Game Changer: Belt and Road Intiative (BRI; OBOR)

ChineseTiger1986 said:

I was just making a comparison.

BTW, so you wanna see Bavaria being independent from Germany? Ask the real German like @Götterdämmerung if he really agree with you.

And as the Brit like @mike2000 if he would agree that the European Scotland being independent from Britain.

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I don´t want see bavaria independend. In the end it doesn´t matter for me which sub state governes it on a regional level as long it belongs to the European Union. Thats my nation and not some petty small state.

terranMarine said:

That Carlosa dude is a hypocrite that's for sure just like 55100864 has pointed already.
Here he is trying to tell us that China must help Russia unconditionally and forget about SCS, the real threat is USA.
It's no secret he is very pro Vietnam claiming he has lived in USA/China/VN for many years, his anti China posts are all over the place and yet he dare say he is neutral. Even when nihonjin posted a funny picture recently on a thread about China and SCS/VN he immediately attacked him for taking side of China.

So spare us with the fake acting, China will deal with the situation the Russians are facing right now and at the same time we ain't losing our sights on SCS, especially dealing with out pet. We shall slap the Vietcongs in their face whenever it's necessary.

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China will still be OK if u lose some small rocks in SCS(east sea), but China will fall when Russia fall. U cant fight at both front lines now.

Dont forget our Gepard corvette pointed its guns toward ur troops in Gac Ma (SJ reef) in the last trip , we r waiting for your weak time to take our rocks back

BuddhaPalm said:

While Russia and USA are in conflict we will take out our most evil enemy the Viets. We let this tumor continue to infest SE Asia for far too long. Now it's time to reduce Vietnam to mail order brides. Massive invasion, brutal occupation and population control will be the final solution. Thanks to USA for focusing on Russia while leaving Viets to suffer pain.

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I can see that you are very smart, wise strategy, good luck with that.

terranMarine said:

That Carlosa dude is a hypocrite that's for sure just like 55100864 has pointed already.
Here he is trying to tell us that China must help Russia unconditionally and forget about SCS, the real threat is USA.
It's no secret he is very pro Vietnam claiming he has lived in USA/China/VN for many years, his anti China posts are all over the place and yet he dare say he is neutral. Even when nihonjin posted a funny picture recently on a thread about China and SCS/VN he immediately attacked him for taking side of China.

So spare us with the fake acting, China will deal with the situation the Russians are facing right now and at the same time we ain't losing our sights on SCS, especially dealing with out pet. We shall slap the Vietcongs in their face whenever it's necessary.

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When did I say I was neutral? What fake acting? Did I say that I like china's polices in SCS or that I switched to the chinese side or that I've found my lost love for china?

The Ukraine / Russian situation is a totally different subject and what I said about that applies specifically to that subject and to china ONLY in relation to that subject. I would expect that you guys were smart enough to see that and I wrongly expected also that most of you can rise above the local differences when talking about other subjects, but I guess not.
You guys are too narrow minded. Well, no problem for me, PDF does not make any difference anyway.

sahaliyan said:

Well said,Russians are not our friends,and never will be one

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Ahahahahahahahah.......LMAO at least some Chinese members on here are beginning to see reality and know how geo politics works/is played out between big Powers. Though some Naive Chinese(and even more so Indian and Vietnamese) members on here still believe Russia is their 'true/all weather friend' like one Indian member on here said before. There is no such thing as friends in geo politics and never will they be. So Russia isnt not a friend to China, but also Russia is not a 'friend' to India and Vietnam as well(though the two later seem to be the most active Russia is our best friend supporters on here.). Russia only thinks about itself first and foremost(just like nay major power does/should do). Friendship is between individuals/civilians not countries/politicians from rival countries.The earlier people on here understand that, the better.

Its true for now Russia and China interests seem to match in their respective region/sphere of influence, where theyw ant to decrease U.S involvement/influence. So its true in this regard i will agree with my friend Chinese dragon, China assisting/cooperating/partnering much more with Russia will be in its own interest as well. Since collapse Russia similar to U.S.S.R 2.0 will be a disaster not only for Russia first and foremost, but also for China, since there will be no real/major power with whom China shares similar world views/interests to counter the 'evil' west/U.S from containing it even further/targeting it. For now, Russia(and middle east islamists) are all giving more time for the Chinese to take more of U.S attention away from them. So this situation is good for China ironically.lol

China Ministry of Foreign Affairs: We will help Russia within our ability； if Russia need, China can help. I agree with Chinese government's ideas, I trust them.

sahaliyan said:

Russians have better relation with Vietnam and India than China,no?Russians don't trust China,if China suffers in the future,they will not give a damn,deal with it,no one know better of Russians than people of northeast China

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Well on this one, its not really the case per se. Russia has just a normal buyer -seller relationship with Vietnam obviously and to some extent India as well. Apart from that, they have nothing much in common. So why will Russia foresake billion of much needed dollars/cash for its defence industry because of China or any other country for that matter?lol The truth is Russia is simply doing what any power will do in their position to be honest. With China, is kind of different, after the collpase of the Soviet Union, China also had an exclusively Buyer-seller relationship with Moscow like its the case with India and Vietnam today. But with time as China defence industry matured, and they grew more bigger/powerful(and we west eventually saw a danger from them as well)., the relationship changed, with Russia also emerging from its collapse and being increasingly anti western. So both now have much interest/ennemy in common, and military deals are now a minor part of this relationship(apart from Engine sales).

So in short, its not like Russia has better relationshipm with India or even less Vietnma than it does with China. In the event of a conflict/war between China against any of the two i mentioned(though very unlikely to happen), Russia wont choose either side, they will just remain silent, and make usual peaceful comments like 'we hope both relevant countries should sit down and solve their issues peacefully' , thats if they say anything at all(also depends on India and Vietnam not getting closer to us in the West/U.S though, as if they do, then Russia will support China in such an event). So its a complex game thats been played. Nothing like 'FRIENDS' in it.

mike2000 said:

Well on this one, its not really the case per se. Russia has just a normal buyer -seller relationship with Vietnam obviously and to some extent India as well. Apart from that, they have nothing much in common. So why will Russia foresake billion of much needed dollars/cash for its defence industry because of China or any other country for that matter?lol The truth is Russia is simply doing what any power will do in their position to be honest. With China, is kind of different, after the collpase of the Soviet Union, China also had an exclusively Buyer-seller relationship with Moscow like its the case with India and Vietnam today. But with time as China defence industry matured, and they grew more bigger/powerful(and we west eventually saw a danger from them as well)., the relationship changed, with Russia also emerging from its collapse and being increasingly anti western. So both now have much interest/ennemy in common, and military deals are now a minor part of this relationship(apart from Engine sales).

So in short, its not like Russia has better relationshipm with India or even less Vietnma than it does with China. In the event of a conflict/war between China against any of the two i mentioned(though very unlikely to happen), Russia wont choose either side, they will just remain silent, and make usual peaceful comments like 'we hope both relevant countries should sit down and solve their issues peacefully' , thats if they say anything at all(also depends on India and Vietnam not getting closer to us in the West/U.S though, as if they do, then Russia will support China in such an event). So its a complex game thats been played. Nothing like 'FRIENDS' in it.

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I still don't understand why Chinese member think helping Russia equal to helping themselves.

Look though some of the post, some even said doing so will push Russia away from the west. Well, as far as I can see it, Russia never really close to west, yes, the West Traded with Russian, but theey are never part of the "West Bloc" like some suggested.

Should China help Russia? Only if there are profit to make, but right now the way I sees it, helping Russia mean you have to put in resource and money to them and without any short term profits. Basically Russia cannot afford Chinese product, even at the low price there are. As for long term benefits, if I were any Chinese living in China I would not expect Russian Help the next time around when West have anything to do in China. For the Russia, they only join the fight if it's benefits them, not if its benefit China, it would be naïve to say Helping Russia Now equate to Helping China later, in fact, looking back at history, I would call it blessing if Russia did not comeback and bite China in the *** when China is in any sort of trouble.

xunzi said:

Between Russia and USA, who is the bigger threat to our existence? The answer is pretty obvious, the USA! But it is also the USA that can help in our development. We are walking in a tight rope, a very thin rope I must say. It is important that we don't get drag into either side but to play the neutral role, a mediator role between Russia and the West. After all, if push comes to shove, Russia has enough nuke to destroy the world. I also don't believe the West got the ball to **** with Russia/China because we are too powerful and we can destroy them, too. The real battle is on the economic level as you can already see. The West seek to suffocate Russia with their advance technology and dominant in the global economic system. They can do the same to us, although it would be tougher as we are far more advance than Russia in industrial technology and we also happen to be the West's creditor. So they need us, just as much as we need them to continue development.

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jhungary said:

I still don't understand why Chinese member think helping Russia equal to helping themselves.

Look though some of the post, some even said doing so will push Russia away from the west. Well, as far as I can see it, Russia never really close to west, yes, the West Traded with Russian, but theey are never part of the "West Bloc" like some suggested.

Should China help Russia? Only if there are profit to make, but right now the way I sees it, helping Russia mean you have to put in resource and money to them and without any short term profits. Basically Russia cannot afford Chinese product, even at the low price there are. As for long term benefits, if I were any Chinese living in China I would not expect Russian Help the next time around when West have anything to do in China. For the Russia, they only join the fight if it's benefits them, not if its benefit China, it would be naïve to say Helping Russia Now equate to Helping China later, in fact, looking back at history, I would call it blessing if Russia did not comeback and bite China in the *** when China is in any sort of trouble.

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Many PDF PRC have studied too little and many can even claim USA is threat to their existence. On the contrary, it was Russia who take the most land from China. But PDF PRC traitor lick up Russia.

When Russia become strong, the whole inner Manchuria and Xinjiang will be destablilized.

A weak Russia is good for China. Initially Kazakhstan want to be Russia lackey. But after Russia in the shit hole as of today, Kazakhstan was in deep shit as well, having Tenge plunge around 20%.

And to compensate Kazakhstan get increasingly closer to China.

You guys can never wet dream going back to Central Asia with a strong Russia around.

Lux de Veritas said:

Many PDF PRC have studied too little and many can even claim USA is threat to their existence. On the contrary, it was Russia who take the most land from China. But PDF PRC traitor lick up Russia.

When Russia become strong, the whole inner Manchuria and Xinjiang will be destablilized.

A weak Russia is good for China. Initially Kazakhstan want to be Russia lackey. But after Russia in the shit hole as of today, Kazakhstan was in deep shit as well, having Tenge plunge around 20%.

And to compensate Kazakhstan get increasingly closer to China.

You guys can never wet dream going back to Central Asia with a strong Russia around.

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The answer to your question is simple, that's because Russian is also anti-west, so whoever is the enemy of my enemy is my friend, by that logic Russia is a friend of China.

This logic only have one flaw, that's Russian does not see it like the way Chinese saw it. In fact, during the last 200 years, we keep seeing Russian Changing side, used up and throw out their friends time and time again, even the evil America have not been doing something like that that often.

We saw them changing side from France to Britain and back to France and back to Britain during the Napoleonwar. Then First and Second Schleswig War. (Where the first one support the Dane, second one throw out the Dane) then WW1, then WW2 when they are still holding chunk of Manchuria and finally who can forget the Russia backstab China in the 60s and 70s and push the Chinese back toward the American?

A strong Russia only benefit Russia, it will not benefit China. In fact, there are no border exist between USA and Russia, but there is an actual border exist between Russia and China. a strong China is actually sees as a threat to Russia, so people here are quite naïve to think helping out Russian is helping out Chinese.

These PDF PRC are crazy enough to think that it is good to have a rich and powerful, neighbours at their backyard who have historically swallowed up much of China.

They are really shallow not to see that the Russian race is very imperialistic. A Russia clashing with USA is God send to China.

bolo said:

this is not about friendship. Some members think Russia is all nice and all. They have stolen Chinese lands, threatened China at her most vulnerable times, supported india and even threatened to use nukes.

If Russia want Chinese help they need to give Chinese more in return in the form of engine tech, better deal on oil/gas and some land. I think and hope CPC will extend help once Russia is on her knees.

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Russia is just like NK, they know clearly that if China dont give aid, then when they fall, China will fall,too.

So, China should keep giving aid unconditionally as usual. Russia-NK will never come to China and ask for help

jhungary said:

I still don't understand why Chinese member think helping Russia equal to helping themselves.

Look though some of the post, some even said doing so will push Russia away from the west. Well, as far as I can see it, Russia never really close to west, yes, the West Traded with Russian, but theey are never part of the "West Bloc" like some suggested.

Should China help Russia? Only if there are profit to make, but right now the way I sees it, helping Russia mean you have to put in resource and money to them and without any short term profits. Basically Russia cannot afford Chinese product, even at the low price there are. As for long term benefits, if I were any Chinese living in China I would not expect Russian Help the next time around when West have anything to do in China. For the Russia, they only join the fight if it's benefits them, not if its benefit China, it would be naïve to say Helping Russia Now equate to Helping China later, in fact, looking back at history, I would call it blessing if Russia did not comeback and bite China in the *** when China is in any sort of trouble.

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I'm a skeptic whenever analyzing a scenario of a 'comprehensive alliance' between Russia and China, simply on the fact that both powers have greater ambitions. From an objective perspective I see both Russia and China complementing each other right now on the basis of the following parameters:

1) Energy security
2) Geopolitical correspondence
3) Strategic consolidation
4) Financial Security

Right now, at the current epoch, China has the upper hand in, well, everything, when comparing the bilateral relationship between Moscow and Beijing. Economically speaking the Chinese have a substantially larger economy, diversified economic portfolio, greater diplomatic clout (SCO, AIIB, WTO, et al), larger population. Russia's only upper hand would be energy supplies, which it has an enviable abundance of, and to which is needed to fuel China's continued industrialization and manufacturing and domestic demand.

Other than that, what does Russia provide to China? Technology? China is able to create its own 5th generation fighter : J31, J20. China is able to develop its own AEGIS destroyers: Type 052 Ds; China is able to develop and field its own air craft carrier: The Liaoning Class; China is able to field its own nuclear submarine: Type 091, Type 093, Type 094. What about space technology? China is not dependent on Russia as the former has an active and productive CNSA (China National Space Administration). Software capabilities? China has proven its capabilities with ALIBABA, Xiaomi, Lenovo et al. There really isn't anything Russia can do (or make) that China cannot do on her own.

So...



Best,
@Nihonjin1051

Nihonjin1051 said:

I'm a skeptic whenever analyzing a scenario of a 'comprehensive alliance' between Russia and China, simply on the fact that both powers have greater ambitions. From an objective perspective I see both Russia and China complementing each other right now on the basis of the following parameters:

1) Energy security
2) Geopolitical correspondence
3) Strategic consolidation
4) Financial Security

Right now, at the current epoch, China has the upper hand in, well, everything, when comparing the bilateral relationship between Moscow and Beijing. Economically speaking the Chinese have a substantially larger economy, diversified economic portfolio, greater diplomatic clout (SCO, AIIB, WTO, et al), larger population. Russia's only upper hand would be energy supplies, which it has an enviable abundance of, and to which is needed to fuel China's continued industrialization and manufacturing and domestic demand.

Other than that, what does Russia provide to China? Technology? China is able to create its own 5th generation fighter : J31, J20. China is able to develop its own AEGIS destroyers: Type 052 Ds; China is able to develop and field its own air craft carrier: The Liaoning Class; China is able to field its own nuclear submarine: Type 091, Type 093, Type 094. What about space technology? China is not dependent on Russia as the former has an active and productive CNSA (China National Space Administration). Software capabilities? China has proven its capabilities with ALIBABA, Xiaomi, Lenovo et al. There really isn't anything Russia can do (or make) that China cannot do on her own.

So...



Best,
@Nihonjin1051

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There is no future for Japan if she is ally for USA. The East Asian future is East Asia. Period. The Japan leaders in WW2 knew that.

The white man dormant antagonism against East Asian is quite high (and partly the rise of China contribute to it).

Nihonjin1051 said:

I'm a skeptic whenever analyzing a scenario of a 'comprehensive alliance' between Russia and China, simply on the fact that both powers have greater ambitions. From an objective perspective I see both Russia and China complementing each other right now on the basis of the following parameters:

1) Energy security
2) Geopolitical correspondence
3) Strategic consolidation
4) Financial Security

Right now, at the current epoch, China has the upper hand in, well, everything, when comparing the bilateral relationship between Moscow and Beijing. Economically speaking the Chinese have a substantially larger economy, diversified economic portfolio, greater diplomatic clout (SCO, AIIB, WTO, et al), larger population. Russia's only upper hand would be energy supplies, which it has an enviable abundance of, and to which is needed to fuel China's continued industrialization and manufacturing and domestic demand.

Other than that, what does Russia provide to China? Technology? China is able to create its own 5th generation fighter : J31, J20. China is able to develop its own AEGIS destroyers: Type 052 Ds; China is able to develop and field its own air craft carrier: The Liaoning Class; China is able to field its own nuclear submarine: Type 091, Type 093, Type 094. What about space technology? China is not dependent on Russia as the former has an active and productive CNSA (China National Space Administration). Software capabilities? China has proven its capabilities with ALIBABA, Xiaomi, Lenovo et al. There really isn't anything Russia can do (or make) that China cannot do on her own.

So...



Best,
@Nihonjin1051

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China cant make a reliable jet engine yet. Without Russian's engine, China AF is just a joke.

Nihonjin1051 said:

I'm a skeptic whenever analyzing a scenario of a 'comprehensive alliance' between Russia and China, simply on the fact that both powers have greater ambitions. From an objective perspective I see both Russia and China complementing each other right now on the basis of the following parameters:

1) Energy security
2) Geopolitical correspondence
3) Strategic consolidation
4) Financial Security

Right now, at the current epoch, China has the upper hand in, well, everything, when comparing the bilateral relationship between Moscow and Beijing. Economically speaking the Chinese have a substantially larger economy, diversified economic portfolio, greater diplomatic clout (SCO, AIIB, WTO, et al), larger population. Russia's only upper hand would be energy supplies, which it has an enviable abundance of, and to which is needed to fuel China's continued industrialization and manufacturing and domestic demand.

Other than that, what does Russia provide to China? Technology? China is able to create its own 5th generation fighter : J31, J20. China is able to develop its own AEGIS destroyers: Type 052 Ds; China is able to develop and field its own air craft carrier: The Liaoning Class; China is able to field its own nuclear submarine: Type 091, Type 093, Type 094. What about space technology? China is not dependent on Russia as the former has an active and productive CNSA (China National Space Administration). Software capabilities? China has proven its capabilities with ALIBABA, Xiaomi, Lenovo et al. There really isn't anything Russia can do (or make) that China cannot do on her own.

So...



Best,
@Nihonjin1051

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I agree on all points. Of the four points, I guess the second is the most important, and that's the underlying rationale for China-Russia cooperation. Geopolitics often trumps over short-term material gains. Hence, even if it means losing some money, China will continue to stand by Russia as the geopolitics dictates so.