Does Turkey Need an Aircraft Carrier(Juan Carlos LHD)?

Stay on topic and stay nice please.

Hakan said:

Stay on topic and stay nice please.

Click to expand...

What's your own thoughts about the topic?
I am unsure(somewhat positive) about it.

rmi5 said:

What's your own thoughts about the topic?
I am so so about it.

Click to expand...

1.7 billion is alot of money for a big target. Tanks could be modernized, better gear for troops, buy more uav's etc.. No need for lhd based on the information I have but it does have a big bonus effect for turkeys geopolitical power because it almost brings you to the level of some european countries regarding power projection. So lpd + a400m is not bad. Also T-129 atak fits in a400m, and c130 so that is a another bonus for power projection. In the long term you may need to protect your overseas resources from rebels and other hostile groups.

Another plus for lhd is that Turkey could become more active in africa. Right now if I was an african country I would rather have a country that can project power have control of my resources over a country like turkey that cant project power and protect those assets.So the lhd would allow turkey to become a real player in africa which is resource rich.

Also you could compete with gulf arab countries and egypt in north africa. Lhd would give a big prestige bonus for turkey, people in middle east, central asia, and balkans will see turkey as a legit power if they see footage of jets taking off from a turkish aircraft carrier. They will see their governments as weak and incompetent.

Overall though im not to hot about the project because the uses are all hypothetical.

The way I look at these types of moves is like this: Does Turkey want to be a small country or does Turkey want to become a real power? What did our ancestors choose? We can look at historical maps and find out pretty quickly.

Hakan said:

1.7 billion is alot of money for a big target. Tanks could be modernized, better gear for troops, buy more uav's etc.. No need for lhd based on the information I have but it does have a big bonus effect for turkeys geopolitical power because it almost brings you to the level of some european countries regarding power projection. So lpd + a400m is not bad. Also T-129 atak fits in a400m, and c130 so that is a another bonus for power projection. In the long term you may need to protect your overseas resources from rebels and other hostile groups.

Another plus for lhd is that Turkey could become more active in africa. Right now if I was an african country I would rather have a country that can project power have control of my resources over a country like turkey that cant project power and protect those assets.So the lhd would allow turkey to become a real player in africa which is resource rich.

Also you could compete with gulf arab countries and egypt in north africa. Lhd would give a big prestige bonus for turkey, people in middle east, central asia, and balkans will see turkey as a legit power if they see footage of jets taking off from a turkish aircraft carrier. They will see their governments as weak and incompetent.

Overall though im not to hot about the project because the uses are all hypothetical.

The way I look at these types of moves is like this: Does Turkey want to be a small country or does Turkey want to become a real power? What did our ancestors choose? We can look at historical maps and find out pretty quickly.

Click to expand...

You know, I preferred it to be built inside Turkey with technical assistance in design, even if it was going to cost 1 billion dollars more. But, after all, The aircraft carrier can cause new needs and forces government to spend more, for other required accessory stuff of it. But, still I am unsure, because I don't know what use is it going to have, and also I am not happy with the current deal for buying this aircraft carrier.

I think Turkey is acquiring an LHD for prestige and geo-political gain and not specifically for "force projection" alone.
During the Libya crisis, Turkey gained great prestige for its ability to evacuate many thousands of its citizens (and some foreign nationals too) in such an efficient way.
Also, I think that operating an LHD would immediately make Turkey strategically more important. In any allied campaign an LHD that is, outfitted with hospital facilities or outfitted to service and support JSF aircraft, cannot be ignored.
Do not forget that allied JSF aircraft could also use this LHD in times of trouble, or need, and this would figure into the calculations of Turkey's allies. Imagine being able to aide a foreign JSF plane that is damaged or in need of re-supply - Interoperability and flexibility bring political gains to Turkey

Guys don't look only as "power projection". Today Turkish Naval Forces have an area of effect from the whole Mediterranean to Western Indian Ocean. We have needed that since 2000. But after the 1999 they have cancelled numerous naval projects. To make it more clear;

1- To support our foreign policy. As you know Turkey is expanding in Africa and South Asia.

2- Somalia and Libya were well examples about the current threat to Turkish personnel in overseas.

3- Since decades TNF is a brown-water navy with water capabilities. Navy stated clearly that they'll improve that capability.

4- It is not a "stupid" project. We need that ASAP.

5- Navy has intentions to have F-35B on board. It's not planned yet, but it's expected.

Any questions, shoot it.

Hakan said:

So the big question is does Turkey need the LHD it is planning to procure?

Click to expand...

Turkey is a recognized regional power. I can't comment whether Turkey's economy can support it or not, but its certainly time for Turkey to up its military game.

Neptune said:

Guys don't look only as "power projection". Today Turkish Naval Forces have an area of effect from the whole Mediterranean to Western Indian Ocean. We have needed that since 2000. But after the 1999 they have cancelled numerous naval projects. To make it more clear;

1- To support our foreign policy. As you know Turkey is expanding in Africa and South Asia.

2- Somalia and Libya were well examples about the current threat to Turkish personnel in overseas.

3- Since decades TNF is a brown-water navy with water capabilities. Navy stated clearly that they'll improve that capability.

4- It is not a "stupid" project. We need that ASAP.

5- Navy has intentions to have F-35B on board. It's not planned yet, but it's expected.

Any questions, shoot it.

Click to expand...

Got a couple of questions, when you say western Indian Ocean, can a LHD or an A/C for that matter, go through the Suez Canal? Or does it have to go around the Cape?
Since Turkey is NATO, don't you have allies up and down the Mediterranean? How do you see an A/C enhancing your footprint?

Joeblow said:

Got a couple of questions, when you say western Indian Ocean, can a LHD or an A/C for that matter, go through the Suez Canal? Or does it have to go around the Cape?

Click to expand...

Of course. Even if it's a CBG, they can pass through Suez Canal. Turkish fleets and warships have been passing through Suez regularly since at least one frigate always stays deployed in Western Indian Ocean. If the SNMG2 is deployed there as well, the numer rises to two. In addition, each year they set up a task force missioned to tour tens of thousands of miles overseas continentally.

Since Turkey is NATO, don't you have allies up and down the Mediterranean? How do you see an A/C enhancing your footprint?

Click to expand...

Yes we do but current Threat Classification of TAF designates the assets of Greece, Egypt and Israel as threat. Looking into TNF's operational history; EVAC ops in Libya, Lebanon, Somalia; long lasting deployments in overseas and more have thaught us that we need an amphibious assault ship asap.

Actually it was a LPD at the beginning but after time they realized they needed something bigger with more helicopters than a LPD can carry. So we ended up with LHD, choosing Spanish Navantia's JC-I.

As for AC, Not yet. Until 2024. But instead, a second LHD will be considered.

Hakan said:

The way I look at these types of moves is like this: Does Turkey want to be a small country or does Turkey want to become a real power? What did our ancestors choose? We can look at historical maps and find out pretty quickly.

Click to expand...

The answer is pretty clear, there is a saying. Türklerin meşgul edecek bela yoksa, Türkler dünyanın belası olur. And looking at the history of the turkish tribes we see this symptom.

Read 3 pages of post, I am surprise no one, I mean NO ONE see Juan Carlos as they really are, a LHD.

We got the same question some years back when someone ask me, "hey, Why US needed 8 mini-Carrier (aka LHD/LHA) when they have 9 Fleet Carriers."

The answer is simple, you should never treat a LHD a carrier, even if they take on fighter/bomber and perform the same job (CAP/S&R/Fighter Escort) as a standard flat-top. Simply because, flat-top cannot launch seaborne assault.

Yes, that's nice to launch F-35 or even host international naval regatta. problem is, people fail to see what value LHD like Juan Carlos is, that's they are LHD. If you want to open a seaborne front, you will need a LHD. People should see carrier capability as a plus.

So, the answer is, would Juan Carlos worth the role of LHD for turkey? I am not Turkish so I can't tell you. But they worth more than just a mini-carrier when you forward deploy those asset. You guys need to think about that when you try to figure out this question

jhungary said:

Read 3 pages of post, I am surprise no one, I mean NO ONE see Juan Carlos as they really are, a LHD.

We got the same question some years back when someone ask me, "hey, Why US needed 8 mini-Carrier (aka LHD/LHA) when they have 9 Fleet Carriers."

The answer is simple, you should never treat a LHD a carrier, even if they take on fighter/bomber and perform the same job (CAP/S&R/Fighter Escort) as a standard flat-top. Simply because, flat-top cannot launch seaborne assault.

Yes, that's nice to launch F-35 or even host international naval regatta. problem is, people fail to see what value LHD like Juan Carlos is, that's they are LHD. If you want to open a seaborne front, you will need a LHD. People should see carrier capability as a plus.

So, the answer is, would Juan Carlos worth the role of LHD for turkey? I am not Turkish so I can't tell you. But they worth more than just a mini-carrier when you forward deploy those asset. You guys need to think about that when you try to figure out this question

Click to expand...

Our LHD won't have a ski-jump and forward elevator...so it's still vague that how can this ship serve as a Carrier.... it seems to me that our people are just excited about the possibility of having something like a carrier.

atatwolf said:

Turks fought in the last Korean war. Koreans I have spoken to said sooner or later a new Korean war will break out. It is not such an odd scenario. Probably China won't stay still like last time. Also tentions with Japan are growing. We could see a regional war breaking out there.

Click to expand...

A "War" with betweens North and South is not gonna happen, most koreans would actually agree with this. You dont need bloodshed or armies to win wars, they can be won multiple ways. The situation between South and North korean is nothing more then a waiting game. I advice you to look into some interesting videos and korean forums to educate yourself, no offence intended.

As for China... come on they wont go to war over some rock... (*suddenly remembers kardak). Welp oke maybe that one is plausable. However its non of our buseniss what happens between the two, we dont really have a say in the mather.

jhungary said:

Read 3 pages of post, I am surprise no one, I mean NO ONE see Juan Carlos as they really are, a LHD.

We got the same question some years back when someone ask me, "hey, Why US needed 8 mini-Carrier (aka LHD/LHA) when they have 9 Fleet Carriers."

The answer is simple, you should never treat a LHD a carrier, even if they take on fighter/bomber and perform the same job (CAP/S&R/Fighter Escort) as a standard flat-top. Simply because, flat-top cannot launch seaborne assault.

Yes, that's nice to launch F-35 or even host international naval regatta. problem is, people fail to see what value LHD like Juan Carlos is, that's they are LHD. If you want to open a seaborne front, you will need a LHD. People should see carrier capability as a plus.

So, the answer is, would Juan Carlos worth the role of LHD for turkey? I am not Turkish so I can't tell you. But they worth more than just a mini-carrier when you forward deploy those asset. You guys need to think about that when you try to figure out this question

Click to expand...

So in a nutshell, its a multi-purpose ship used for all kinds of shitt.

BordoEnes said:

A "War" with betweens North and South is not gonna happen, most koreans would actually agree with this. You dont need bloodshed or armies to win wars, they can be won multiple ways. The situation between South and North korean is nothing more then a waiting game. I advice you to look into some interesting videos and korean forums to educate yourself, no offence intended.

As for China... come on they wont go to war over some rock... (*suddenly remembers kardak). Welp oke maybe that one is plausable. However its non of our buseniss what happens between the two, we dont really have a say in the mather.


So in a nutshell, its a multi-purpose ship used for all kinds of shitt.

Click to expand...

Again, I am not Turkish, so I don't know, but for Australia, we bought the same ship and we are going to use them for oversea deployment and most importantly, Humanitarian relief

Sinan said:

Our LHD won't have a ski-jump and forward elevator...so it's still vague that how can this ship serve as a Carrier.... it seems to me that our people are just excited about the possibility of having something like a carrier.

Click to expand...

According to Arda Mevlutoglu aka orko_8 it will have a ski-jump. check his twitter.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Local defence press reports future LPH for Turkish Navy will incorporate ski jump, signalling F-35B plans <a href="AMI International (@AMI_Intl) | Twitter">@AMI_Intl</a> <a href="The Aviationist (@TheAviationist) | Twitter">@TheAviationist</a></p>&mdash; Arda Mevlutoglu (@orko_8) <a href=" ">December 19, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>