Yom Kippur War 1973: Why did Syria fail to take the Golan Heights?

FaujHistorian · Nov 1, 2014

The SC said:
Do you know, that was in Ramadan too, which is far worst than any EID, All the Egyptian army was fasting, isn't that more than fair.

Two wrongs do not make it right.

The SC · Nov 1, 2014

Wasteland said:
LOL, now what's this bullshit ?! are you supposed to go to someone who is OCCUPYING a part of your county and tell him "excuse me when can i come to fight you" ?

And no soldiers or officers went home, how would they let the soldiers go home while they knew very well the Egyptians and Syrians are planning to attack ?! Golda Meir had reports of a joint Egyptian-Syrian attack, Moshe Dayan knew there was an imminent attack coming soon and requested to summon the reserve forces , the Israeli intelligence knew very well about the planned attack, but they still claimed it was a surprise to save their faces, what surprise ?! were the Egyptians supposed to say "when can we come to fight you to get back our land which you stole, sir?" ?! cut this crap, i only heard that bullshit from Israeli people, no way it's coming from a Pakistani !

Golda Meir's fears and uncertainty at outbreak of Yom Kippur War revealed in declassified documents

This is quite interesting too

500 · Nov 1, 2014

Wasteland said:
And look at him talking about the Egyptian offensive on 14 October , he's saying it was a huge failure, but the liar ignores the fact, which is, Israel lost more Equipment than the Egyptians, Egyptian military lost 200 tanks, 1,000 dead, and Israeli lost 150 tanks, 60 armored fighting vehicles/APC's , ans some 10-12 aircraft , and 680 killed, it was a huge knock to the IDF, not to the Egyptians.

Again u are throwing idiotic baseless numbers. Do you want to be the SC #2? Israel never lost 680 killed a day, even on both front combined, not even close. If Israel suffered so heavy loses on 14 Oct, as u claim how could it launch a successful offensive on 15 Oct? You give link to Gawrych although he never wrote ur nonsense:

Wasteland said:
Oh and, he was saying capturing Suez and Ismailia was not important, that amateur liar, if Israel was able to cap Ismailia they would have encircled the 2nd army, and cut the water supply to the whole country, do you know how critical that is if it was achieved ?!

In order to encircle the 2nd you would need to move 90 km up to Med Sea. Israel could not do it since all forces were used in encircling 3rd army.

However by pushing towards Ismaelia Israel did manage to widen the bridgehead from couple km in first days of crossing to 15 km in the end of war.

secondly, he said Suez is a large city, while in fact Suez is a small city with an Area of just 9 square miles !

I said its size of Fallujah and Grozny, which were stormed by US and Russia for nearly 2 months with huge amount of destruction. Israel stormed Suez for one day without artillery and air force support. It was basically just probe attack.

and he says capping Suez wasn't important to the IDF, well if it wasn't important then why did the IDF try more than 3 times to capture the city and attacked it over several days ?! why would a military waste it's time trying to capture a position that is not important ?! just messing around ?!

There was just one probe attack on 25 Oct.

Mercenary · Nov 1, 2014

@500 ...Anyone with a cat avatar and who chooses large purple font to write must not be taken seriously.

500 · Nov 1, 2014

Wasteland said:
the Israeli intelligence knew very well about the planned attack, but they still claimed it was a surprise to save their faces, what surprise ?

The confirmation about the war happened only 1 day before the war and still Israel did not know about the scale and character of the war. Fact is that Israel did not mobilize its forces. So when 5 Egyptian divisions supported by 2000 artillery pieces crossed canal all they faced is 400 infantry men along the 150 km canal. Thats fact.

! were the Egyptians supposed to say "when can we come to fight you to get back our land which you stole, sir?" ?! cut this crap, i only heard that bullshit from Israeli people, no way it's coming from a Pakistani !

Well Egypt signed a cease fire agreement. So it did broke its agreement. You can say it was morally justified cheating, but still cheating.

Mahmoud_EGY said:
from wiki
he sand wall and its concrete support prevented any armored or amphibious units from landing on the east bank of the Suez Canal without prior engineering preparations. Israeli planners estimated it would take at least 24 hours, probably a full 48 hours for the Egyptians to breach the sand wall and establish a bridge across the canal.[1][2] Immediately behind this sand wall, was the front line of Israeli fortifications. After the War of Attrition, there were 22 forts, which incorporated 35 strongpoints. The forts were designed to be manned by a platoon. The strongpoints, which were built several stories into the sand, were on average situated less than 5 km (3 mi) from each other, but at likely crossing points they were less than 900 metres (3,000 ft) apart. The strongpoints incorporated trenches, minefields, barbed wire and a sand embankment. Major strongpoints had up to 26 bunkers with medium and heavy machineguns, 24 troop shelters, six mortar positions, four bunkers housing anti-aircraft weapons, and three firing positions for tanks. The strongpoints were surrounded by nearly fifteen circles of barbed wire and minefields to a depth of 200 metres (660 ft). A strongpoint's perimeter averaged 200–350 metres (660–1,150 ft). The bunkers and shelters provided protection against anything less than a 500 kg bomb, and offered luxuries to the defenders such as air conditioning. Between 500–1,000 metres (1,600–3,300 ft) behind the canal, there were prepared firing positions designed to be occupied by tanks assigned to the support of the strongpoints. Some of the
Bar Lev Line - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There were total 15 strongholds with some 25-30 men each along the canal + 1 "Budapest" stronghold couple kms away from canal at Mediterranean sea (with some 60 men inside).

what i know is there are a good number of units rearmed and redeployed between cairo and suez if the war continue .and algerians can fight if they got the chance

Absolutely not enought to fight 3 armor divisions reinforced with TOW missiles.

Wasteland · Nov 1, 2014

500 said:
The confirmation about the war happened only 1 day before the war and still Israel did not know about the scale and character of the war. Fact is that Israel did not mobilize its forces. So when 5 Egyptian divisions supported by 2000 artillery pieces crossed canal all they faced is 400 infantry men along the 150 km canal. Thats fact.

So you are confirming that Israeli Institute of Intelligence was manipulated by the Egyptian military and the Mossad failed very badly and fucked up, good. what a shitty intelligence Israel has LOL

There we go again, another lies, there was 300 Israeli tanks, 8 armored brigades and artillery. Second, did the 5 Egyptian divisions cross the bar lev line at the same time ?! to say that 5 divisions faced 400 infantry ?! did the 5 division cross at the same time you dickhead ?! no they took a day to cross, they had the 5 divisions on the east bank of the canal on the morning of October 7 ! at that time Israel had summoned 5 armored brigades , to reach a total of 8 armored brigades , and they had tanks and artillery deeper.

Cheating ?! now show us your double face, what about the Israeli sudden attack on Egypt in 1967 ?! that was cheating and a coward act, right?
When Egypt launched a sudden attack, they did it to take their land back, but when Israel launched a sudden attack on 1967, they did it to STEAL a land ! so who's the coward son of a btch here ?

About the October 14 attack, did you even read the sources i provided ?! what's the page you are snipping and posting ?! who wrote that ?! my source is the British military journalist Colonel Edgar O'Ballance, but what's your page ? huh ?

Mahmoud_EGY · Nov 1, 2014

500 said:
There were total 15 strongholds with some 25-30 men each along the canal + 1 "Budapest" stronghold couple kms away from canal at Mediterranean sea (with some 60 men inside).
.

i know this from soldiers who fought in the war they faced the isreali strong points you also had MGs and artillery and tank bunkers all this was defeated by light infantry

Absolutely not enought to fight 3 armor divisions reinforced with TOW missiles.

it always comes down to this in any discussion about 73 war the fact is no one knows what would happen if the war continue there was many possibilities can you be sure that your forces can finish off the 3rd army what about the Egyptian forces behind them ? what about the Egyptian air force what about the high losses you already suffered and the fact that isreal cant stand long war of attrition ? and have no problem in numbers and also we had algria help

500 · Nov 1, 2014

Wasteland said:
So you are confirming that Israeli Institute of Intelligence was manipulated by the Egyptian military and the Mossad failed very badly and fucked up, good.

Yes it was Israeli intelligence failure.

There we go again, another lies, there was 300 Israeli tanks, 8 armored brigades and artillery.

290 tanks (3 armored brigades) were located in second line of defence.

Second, did the 5 Egyptian divisions cross the bar lev line at the same time ?! to say that 5 divisions faced 400 infantry ?! did the 5 division cross at the same time you dickhead ?! no they took a day to cross, they had the 5 divisions on the east bank of the canal on the morning of October 7 !

The first wave of 4000 man crossed at 14:30. The last wave arrived at 17:30. It took 3 hours to land 5 divisions without heavy weapons + 5 additional ATGM battalions. Thus when 1 division of Israeli tanks have arrived, 5 divisions were deployed + 5 additional anti tank battalions.

Heavy weapons did not cross yet, but they were supporting them from other side of the canal (its just 300 m wide).

Cheating ?! now show us your double face, what about the Israeli sudden attack on Egypt in 1967 ?! that was cheating and a coward act, right?

On 1967 Israel attacked after Egypt declared naval blockade, entered into Sinai 7 divisions (when Israel had only 3 after mobilization) and expelled UN forces on the border.

About the October 14 attack, did you even read the sources i provided ?! what's the page you are snipping and posting ?! who wrote that ?! my source is the British military journalist Colonel Edgar O'Ballance, but what's your page ? huh ?

That page is from Gawrych, which u claimed as ur source. Sorry but ur fantasies have nothing to do with sources ur provided.

500 · Nov 1, 2014

Mahmoud_EGY said:
i know this from soldiers who fought in the war they faced the isreali strong points you also had MGs and artillery and tank bunkers all this was defeated by light infantry
it always comes down to this in any discussion about 73 war the fact is no one knows what would happen if the war continue there was many possibilities can you be sure that your forces can finish off the 3rd army what about the Egyptian forces behind them ? what about the Egyptian air force what about the high losses you already suffered and the fact that isreal cant stand long war of attrition ? and have no problem in numbers and also we had algria help

3rd army was in open field cut from its supplies and without air defence umbrella. How long they could hold? 1 month? 2 months?

atatwolf · Nov 1, 2014

Israeli had a lot of spies. They understand the art of war and deception.

ashish1 · Nov 1, 2014

Apart from 500,Faujihistorian and posts of some other members,this thread is a complete dissapointment

FaujHistorian · Nov 1, 2014

atatwolf said:
Israeli had a lot of spies. They understand the art of war and deception.

you must be imagining Israel spies aka women with milky white skin, blue eyes, that arab generals would look at, melt, and give up all the maps, and troop deployment plans.

Right.

Right Right?

atatwolf · Nov 1, 2014

FaujHistorian said:
you must be imagining Israel spies aka women with milky white skin, blue eyes, that arab generals would look at, melt, and give up all the maps, and troop deployment plans.

Right.

Right Right?

if you look closely you can also spot little horns :lol:

Mahmoud_EGY · Nov 1, 2014

500 said:
3rd army was in open field cut from its supplies and without air defence umbrella. How long they could hold? 1 month? 2 months?

and how long can your nation continue being at war and like i said a million time what makes you think they would wait for death where they can attack isreali forces on the african side of the canal with support of our air force and the rest of our forces

Mercenary · Nov 1, 2014

Mahmoud_EGY said:
and how long can your nation continue being at war and like i said a million time what makes you think they would wait for death where they can attack isreali forces on the african side of the canal with support of our air force and the rest of our forces

Israel could have waged war for months.

You mean to tell me that Israel could not have destroyed the 3rd Army because its economy would have collapsed?

Are you high?

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