Just tell me who sells more choppers... Eurocopter or Druv?
About bought a design. So you did not design. Just tell me where the engine comes from? Maybe the avionics? The gear? The rotors? O I see. All bought.
When India was Importing. Pakistan was making
- Thread starter shaheenmissile
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Just tell me who sells more choppers... Eurocopter or Druv?
About bought a design. So you did not design. Just tell me where the engine comes from? Maybe the avionics? The gear? The rotors? O I see. All bought.
acetophenol
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Eurocopter obviously must have sold more helis than HAL,also please explain the reason why you asked that question and its relevance. Also,please Read my post again. MBB was brought in as design consultants and their contract ended in 1994-95. Dhruv was designed in India,by Indian engineers. Now we are developing its variants. We have been making our own choppers for a long time. Theres no denying that Dhruv has several imported critical parts,but they are being indigenized. Its a common practice sourcing parts for your design from others. India too supplies parts for others.
acetophenol
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Eurocopter obviously must have sold more helis than HAL,also please explain the reason why you asked that question and its relevance. Also,please Read my post again. MBB was brought in as design consultants and their contract ended in 1994-95. Dhruv was designed in India,by Indian engineers. Now we are developing its variants. We have been making our own choppers for a long time. Theres no denying that Dhruv has several imported critical parts,but they are being indigenized. Its a common practice sourcing parts for your design from others. India too supplies parts for others.
So let me summarize. You bought MBB design. Imported every part. Try to produce a few of these parts in India and you call it Indian. So what is then really Indian in a Druv?
It does remind me Russian Yakhunt. You bought Yakhunt. Rewrote some software. The project was called Brahmos to show dual nations. Yet you offered it as Indian product to several nations. Russians were pissed of.
I agree with you that Indian products should be Indian in pr. Yet this does not line with reality. We could call Mushaq, K8 or JF17 a Pakistani only product. We never do.
acetophenol
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I have given out an example in the previous posts,while you are making an house, you put in your money and design into it. You don't make the cement,bricks and paint all by yourselves, do you? HAL Dhruv is an helicopter designed by Indian engineers,in India. MBB was there are consultants for sometime. The design of Dhruv is an Indian one,and we were successful in makeing its variants too, HAL LCH,HAL Rudra and HAL LUH.
There are some three ways in which in you make a machine.
Firstly, you can license produce it,i.e,you can buy the technology and design and make them here. HAL Cheetah and HAL Chetak are examples of license made French Alouette helis. We used to import its parts but later attained capability to make them from scratch. Your Mushaq is a licensed variant of Saab Safari,if I am not wrong.
Then there are Joint Ventures, you can team up with another nation. BrahMos is an Indo Russian JV,with India providing critical tech including guidance. We have marketting rights and profit goes for Russians too. We were able to make its sub sea and air launched variants too. And its funny you presented "re writing software" as a childs play. Jf 17 and K 8 are JVs too. Then you can develop your own design and make them in house,like Dhruv.
The problem with India is that they do not have enough to deliver and everyone is abusing that... They sell for billions and India stays where it is. Having enough to spend is not always a blessing. Pakistan has never enough to spend. It makes them smarter. They deliver with less.
touching! we must follow pakistan in this regard.
acetophenol
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I do not agree with this. India is delivering class products even though its not upto our true potential. Hopefully,with recent changes ,this will change. And regarding Pakistan, you are lagging behind India in almost every field,be it automobile,power generation or other industries. Its not just about money,you guys have failed to create a good industrial,educational and political base.
Let me add another plane... The Indian posters say J31 is a copy of F35... Well, don't all these planes look the same cause they have the same goal in mind?
Yet I do not hear Indians saying something about Korean KFX... And there is a Turkish version...
Yet I do not hear Indians saying something about Korean KFX... And there is a Turkish version...
Donatello
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Long BS short, license copy and put Indian flag on it. Wallah, if somebody tells me it's Indian, must be Indian.
Retarded Indian logic.
acetophenol
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You are a Think Tank,post something thats up to the standard of your title mate. You may disagree with I have said,fine. Try to prove what you have said.
acetophenol
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These are some items India has made and has been making
^^^^Vijayanta MBT
^^^ T-72 "Ajeya"
^^^Arjun MBT
^^^T-90 "Bheeshma"
^^^BMP-2 "Sarath"
^^^HAL Lancer COIN attack Heli
^^^HAL Cheetah
^^^HAL Chetak
^^^^Vijayanta MBT
^^^ T-72 "Ajeya"
^^^Arjun MBT
^^^T-90 "Bheeshma"
^^^BMP-2 "Sarath"
^^^HAL Lancer COIN attack Heli
^^^HAL Cheetah
^^^HAL Chetak
Krate M
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There are quite a lot of reasons why this is the case especially in the defence sector.
1. Pakistan was ruled by military for most of its existence. The major advantage of this is quick decision making and also clear chain of command. Also it was manufacturing of military, for military and by military. So all requests were quickly handled and troubleshooting done fast. Any local opposition was taken care of swiftly.
2. Support by US
A lot of military equipment as well as funding diverted for military purposes. Military knew what to ask, whom to ask and how much. This was also supported by diplomatic and lobbying efforts.
3. China: Here too the hierarchy helped immensely. China likes people in charge and quick decision making.
Last but not the least is the fact that even where corruption happened (like agosta deal) it didn't affect the military preparedness and deals weren't cancelled due to impropriety. This was because the government knew how it will affect the defence of the country and was not worried about it's image for the next election.
1. Pakistan was ruled by military for most of its existence. The major advantage of this is quick decision making and also clear chain of command. Also it was manufacturing of military, for military and by military. So all requests were quickly handled and troubleshooting done fast. Any local opposition was taken care of swiftly.
2. Support by US
A lot of military equipment as well as funding diverted for military purposes. Military knew what to ask, whom to ask and how much. This was also supported by diplomatic and lobbying efforts.
3. China: Here too the hierarchy helped immensely. China likes people in charge and quick decision making.
Last but not the least is the fact that even where corruption happened (like agosta deal) it didn't affect the military preparedness and deals weren't cancelled due to impropriety. This was because the government knew how it will affect the defence of the country and was not worried about it's image for the next election.
Dazzler
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These are some items India has made and has been making
View attachment 127393
^^^^Vijayanta MBT
View attachment 127394
^^^ T-72 "Ajeya"
View attachment 127395
^^^Arjun MBT
View attachment 127396
^^^T-90 "Bheeshma"
View attachment 127397
^^^BMP-2 "Sarath"
View attachment 127398
^^^HAL Lancer COIN attack Heli
View attachment 127399
^^^HAL Cheetah
^^^HAL Chetak
they are improved/ upgraded by india, except arjun, all are foreign systems, now dont come jumping you made this or historic references shall be opened.
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