INDIA’S HOSTILE BMD PROGRAM AND PAKISTAN’S SECURITY OPTION – OPED

IPL5 · Oct 1, 2014

Hyperion said:
Anyone with even cursory knowledge of such systems knows that BMD can be beaten with ease (by a country with even rudimentary missile program)...... furthermore, geographic location of Pakistan and India, and the fact that any such systems will be mated with nuclear warheads and accuracy of such systems being least of the problem, and assured mutual destruction in case of a strike, makes Indian BMD systems pointless vis a vis Pakistan...... Pakistan, at least for the foreseeable future has nothing to worry about, as Pakistan is no Gaza and India is no Israel.

Only thing Indian BMD is good for is, protection of certain strategic locations, that too to a degree..... it's no "iron dome", heck, even iron-dome isn't iron-dome!

where do you suppose to fire missiles ? strategic locations only. as per vienna convention you can't target civilian population.

RISING SUN · Oct 1, 2014

Hyperion said:
Aegis SM3 is another ball game..... even that has limited scope....... if you knew the game, you'd understand...... there are different kind of defense strategies and assets to be protected at all costs, your BMD is for one of them...........

Dude, with your confidence, you'd be even able to preemptively strike and neutralize my fart!

AEGIS BMD faces problems not because of missiles limitations or radar tracking. Major problem is power supply. Its well known that when aegis ships have many roles to fulfill including countering missiles. So when it goes to stop a missile it has to devote most of its resources on the missile tracking only. All other systems get very little power and radar also has very limited power to act against other threats. But land based anti missiles don't face any such problems. That's why their capabilities are much more than a ship based AEGIS bmd. BMD can't stop every missile but it can bring significant change in battle scenario. Saving some is better than no saving at all. And there are other options too to complement bmd. It is only a tool among many. Thank you.

Hyperion · Oct 1, 2014

Nothing yet, yara!

kbd-raaf said:
@Hyperion Any updates on our bet? I'd like to know whether I need to take you out for dinner.

You seem educated enough. Cutting it short, between India and Pakistan BMD's are mostly point / theater defense systems. I'm sure, you get what I'm saying.

Furthermore, regarding AEGIS, it's not just 'simply' power and tracking..................

RISING SUN said:
AEGIS BMD faces problems not because of missiles limitations or radar tracking. Major problem is power supply. Its well known that when aegis ships have many roles to fulfill including countering missiles. So when it goes to stop a missile it has to devote most of its resources on the missile tracking only. All other systems get very little power and radar also has very limited power to act against other threats. But land based anti missiles don't face any such problems. That's why their capabilities are much more than a ship based AEGIS bmd. BMD can't stop every missile but it can bring significant change in battle scenario. Saving some is better than no saving at all. And there are other options too to complement bmd. It is only a tool among many. Thank you.

TimeTraveller · Oct 1, 2014

what is tier in BMD? :meeting:

Off Topic: @RKO Your Profile pic is great and wonderful...(Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Future Soldiers)... :victory1:

Rajaraja Chola · Oct 1, 2014

TimeTraveller said:
what is tier in BMD?

Off Topic: @RKO Your Profile pic is great and wonderful...(Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Future Soldiers)...

Ist tier for from protecting us from 2000km range ballistic missiles. Second tier is for 5000km range ballistic missiles.

Desi_Dalek · Oct 1, 2014

Roybot said:
How on earth can a Ballistic Missile Defence program be hostile?

When your enemy field more Ballistic missiles it decreases the possibility of MAD and forces that country to either increase their warheads or precision of missiles.

From Pakistani point of view if we do not fear their nuclear missiles, we can engage in hostile actions against Pakistan without serious repercussions. It's the same reason Russia opposed the Ballistic missile shield in Europe.

Of course in reality no ballistic defense system is perfect and even if 10% of missiles got through we are fucked.

Kloitra · Oct 1, 2014

Hyperion said:
Anyone with even cursory knowledge of such systems knows that BMD can be beaten with ease (by a country with even rudimentary missile program)...... furthermore, geographic location of Pakistan and India, and the fact that any such systems will be mated with nuclear warheads and accuracy of such systems being least of the problem, and assured mutual destruction in case of a strike, makes Indian BMD systems pointless vis a vis Pakistan...... Pakistan, at least for the foreseeable future has nothing to worry about, as Pakistan is no Gaza and India is no Israel.

Only thing Indian BMD is good for is, protection of certain strategic locations, that too to a degree..... it's no "iron dome", heck, even iron-dome isn't iron-dome!

That is what current deployment is for. To protect certain strategic locations and big cities. It might not be perfect, but if it offers slightest protection, it is better than nothing. It forces Pakistan to devote more resources. What originally was required for 10 cities would now be used up for just one. You don't have infinite resources.

TimeTraveller · Oct 1, 2014

Rajaraja Chola said:
Ist tier for from protecting us from 2000km range ballistic missiles. Second tier is for 5000km range ballistic missiles.

Thanks Sir...One more question...Is this only depends on range of the missile or also on speed..For e.g. if we take example of a missile of range 3000Km but of speed of 24Mach then is it possible for our BMD to intercept that incoming attack..?

Kloitra · Oct 1, 2014

The Great One said:
Forgive me for my lack of cursory knowledge but exactly how does a country with a rudimentary missile program easily beat BMD's.

Overwhelming it. A BMD can only protect against so many numbers.

TimeTraveller said:
Thanks Sir...One more question...Is this only depends on range of the missile or also on speed..For e.g. if we take example of a missile of range 3000Km but of speed of 24Mach then is it possible for our BMD to intercept that incoming attack..?

Generally range of missile is dependent on speed. This is how ballistic missile works, a lower range missile would have lower speed. That is, when they talk about range of missile, they are talking about its speed and elevation. If the missile has higher speed, it will fall under higher range, despite the location of target.

TimeTraveller · Oct 1, 2014

Kloitra said:
Overwhelming it. A BMD can only protect against so many numbers.

Generally range of missile is dependent on speed. This is how ballistic missile works, a lower range missile would have lower speed.

Thanks Sir... :laugh:

Rajaraja Chola · Oct 1, 2014

TimeTraveller said:
Thanks Sir...One more question...Is this only depends on range of the missile or also on speed..For e.g. if we take example of a missile of range 3000Km but of speed of 24Mach then is it possible for our BMD to intercept that incoming attack..?

Thats why the three tier. A higher range BM would have a higher speed. So we need to intercept those missiles at higher altitudes. If the missile escapes the BMD, then it would be virtually impossible to intercept at lower altitudes. So we need 3 tiers, each tier for a different range of missiles.

indoPunjabi · Oct 1, 2014

Hostile BMD :eek:

OMFG

TimeTraveller · Oct 1, 2014

Rajaraja Chola said:
Thats why the three tier. A higher range BM would have a higher speed. So we need to intercept those missiles at higher altitudes. If the missile escapes the BMD, then it would be virtually impossible to intercept at lower altitudes. So we need 3 tiers, each tier for a different range of missiles.

Thanks Sir...

Hyperion · Oct 1, 2014

No one has infinite resources. I'm a strong proponent of MAD. As far as your BMD's are concerned, they're not Pakistan centric.

Kloitra said:
That is what current deployment is for. To protect certain strategic locations and big cities. It might not be perfect, but if it offers slightest protection, it is better than nothing. It forces Pakistan to devote more resources. What originally was required for 10 cities would now be used up for just one. You don't have infinite resources.

OrionHunter · Oct 1, 2014

In the long term, Pakistan needs to acquire advance technologies, like perfecting cruise missile technology, reducing the conventional asymmetry between India and Pakistan,

Silly observation! As though India would be sitting on its haunches and twiddling its thumbs till Pakistan attains conventional symmetry!! That's never going to happen. Period! Pakistan doesn't have the economic muscle for an arms race with India. Never mind if Bhutto said they will even eat grass to achieve it!

Moreover, Pakistan can also pursue a diplomatic course by suggesting an ABM treaty between India and Pakistan, or by negotiating a zero missile regime between the two countries.

Spot on! Now that's the intelligent thing to say. There should be not only an ABM treaty between India and Pakistan, but also a no-war pact. Pakistan was proposed this way back but it refused point blank! That's because it wanted to keep its options open for a war against India to wrest Kashmir. So, an ABM treaty or a no-war pact is a non starter until Pakistan gets rid of its Kashmir phobia.

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INDIA’S HOSTILE BMD PROGRAM AND PAKISTAN’S SECURITY OPTION – OPED

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