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Military Conscription in Pakistan, Yes or No?

Kompromat

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I, recently read this rather interesting blog on DAWN by Sami Shah, which calls for a mandatory military conscription to be introduced in Pakistan. On its surface it seems like a good idea with some solid arguments, though there are following issues, i think which must be added into this debate.

1: Pakistan already has the 6th largest 'standing Army' in the world. All of our Soldiers are career soldiers, who are highly trained, disciplined, battle hardened and forward looking. Our Army is fully capable of defending Pakistan from 'multi axis' invasions. The new Pakistani doctrine (name of which is still classified) has been theorised, tested, counter tested and adopted as a result of Azm-e-Nau exercises which were started under General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

2: No nuclear power in the world has conscription, simply because after the introduction of a nuclear triad into the security paradigm, the numerical disadvantage against a larger foe becomes almost irrelevant. Nuclear weapons are an ultimate guarantee of national sovereignty. They are not a weapon of last resort but a weapon of diplomacy. We saw this dynamic playing its role when Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi had to postpone, Indira Gandhi's ambition to 'undo Pakistan' through Operation Brasstacks in 1988, after realizing that Pakistan had a nuclear deterrent. Half a million Indian soldiers and support staff were unilaterally withdrawn after a meeting between General Zia and Rajiv.

3: Countries like Turkey, South Korea, Singapore have mandatory conscription for their own reasons. They are not nuclear powers themselves but are surrounded by nuclear powers which also have large armies i.e Russia, North Korea, China and India. It means their threat calculus is different from Pakistan which calls for a different solution.

4: The argument presented in regards to a cataclysmic scenario involving multi axis invasions by regional states, on top of fifth columns starting multiple coordinated insurrections sounds a solid argument, however, what must be noted is that neither Afghanistan nor Iran has the 'military capability' to mount an invasion into Pakistan, due to mountainous terrain which is a natural deterrent to such invasions as none of those nations would be able to mobilize assets in enough quantities to outwit and defeat Pakistani defenses, especially in the presence of Pakistan Air Force, which remains dominant in that region. As far as the insurgents are concerned, they are being tracked down and eliminated by Pakistan's security agencies. They don't pose a bigger threat than they already do.

5: I must disappoint the feminists here. Women are simply not suited for 'combat'. All armed services have increased the intake of women professionals in roles in which they are most effective. Adding women into conscription doesn't equal gender equality. We should perhaps start with reforming the draconian laws which we have legislated for our women citizenry.

6: Arguments about national cohesion and bridging the class divide through conscription are valid arguments.

7: In the end, i personally don't believe that the need for conscription has enough utility for national defense when compared to the amount of resources we need to carry out this mammoth task. Unless our citizens start paying their taxes.

8: There however can be an ALTERNATIVE. Pakistan can certainly have a 'Military Training Program for Youth'. It won't be mandatory. It would be for adult males only. Candidates must volunteer for the program. Age limit should from 17-35. Program length from 6-10 weeks. Curriculum should include, support roles, ambush tactics, military communication, drill, PT, firearms training and hand to hand combat. This program should be the ONLY way to attain a firearm's license in Pakistan.

Consequently, over a long period of time, we would have a properly trained firearm owning citizenry, rather than trigger happy rural cowboys with zero trigger or firearm discipline, simply because no one has ever trained them in firearms safety. Pakistan Army's retired soldiers and officers can be paid and tasked with carrying out a nationwide training program, which will solve a big veterans problem too, since some of them retire in their mid or late 40s while their kids are still undergoing transition i.e careers or marriages, which puts a fiscal strain on them. Candidates should be brought from all corners of the state, so they have interaction with fellow citizens from different ethnolinguistic backgrounds. Females would be included in support roles training.

I believe such a volunteer only model would be a more pragmatic solution which would boost discipline and national cohesion amongst the youth as well as would add utility to Pakistan's security apparatus by creating a 4th line of defense for the country or a highly trained civil defense force, which can be called into action in case of a war, natural calamities, vaccination campaigns and IDP crises we face so often. It would certainly relieve much burden from Army's shoulders when citizens start taking some share of responsibility.

Written by Horus - Pakistan Defence Administrator.

Thank You.

Pakistan Defence | #Horus | SHARE

In response to > Mandatory military service — anyone? - Blogs - DAWN.COM
 
this Q was probably my first thread on this forum... :)

and yes, there must be atleast 6 month training for every boy and girl.
 
Service of around a year , for select groups, such as civil defence teams from all of Pakistan's major population centres would be good. These teams can number in the thousands of men. But we do have to remember we have a huge population of 200 million people, with around 88 million men eligible for military service. We simply do not have the resources to run a rotation system of service. I do like the idea that this would be the only way to obtain a firearm.

We have one of the largest, voluntary standing armies in the world at around 675,000 soldiers, whose life and love is the pursuit of warfare. That is more than enough. Conscript armies are dated and ineffective.

I'll bring up good old king Leonidas from 300, regarding what he thinks about it.

 
I, recently read this rather interesting blog on DAWN by Sami Shah, which calls for a mandatory military conscription to be introduced in Pakistan. On its surface it seems like a good idea with some solid arguments, though there are following issues, i think which must be added into this debate.

1: Pakistan already has the 6th largest 'standing Army' in the world. All of our Soldiers are career soldiers, who are highly trained, disciplined, battle hardened and forward looking. Our Army is fully capable of defending Pakistan from 'multi axis' invasions. The new Pakistani doctrine (name of which is still classified) has been theorised, tested, counter tested and adopted as a result of Azm-e-Nau exercises which were started under General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

2: No nuclear power in the world has conscription, simply because after the introduction of a nuclear triad into the security paradigm, the numerical disadvantage against a larger foe becomes almost irrelevant. Nuclear weapons are an ultimate guarantee of national sovereignty. They are not a weapon of last resort but a weapon of diplomacy. We saw this dynamic playing its role when Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi had to postpone, Indira Gandhi's ambition to 'undo Pakistan' through Operation Brasstacks in 1988, after realizing that Pakistan had a nuclear deterrent. Half a million Indian soldiers and support staff were unilaterally withdrawn after a meeting between General Zia and Rajiv.

3: Countries like Turkey, South Korea, Singapore have mandatory conscription for their own reasons. They are not nuclear powers themselves but are surrounded by nuclear powers which also have large armies i.e Russia, North Korea, China and India. It means their threat calculus is different from Pakistan which calls for a different solution.

4: The argument presented in regards to a cataclysmic scenario involving multi axis invasions by regional states, on top of fifth columns starting multiple coordinated insurrections sounds a solid argument, however, what must be noted is that neither Afghanistan nor Iran has the 'military capability' to mount an invasion into Pakistan, due to mountainous terrain which is a natural deterrent to such invasions as none of those nations would be able to mobilize assets in enough quantities to outwit and defeat Pakistani defenses, especially in the presence of Pakistan Air Force, which remains dominant in that region. As far as the insurgents are concerned, they are being tracked down and eliminated by Pakistan's security agencies. They don't pose a bigger threat than they already do.

5: I must disappoint the feminists here. Women are simply not suited for 'combat'. All armed services have increased the intake of women professionals in roles in which they are most effective. Adding women into conscription doesn't equal gender equality. We should perhaps start with reforming the draconian laws which we have legislated for our women citizenry.

6: Arguments about national cohesion and bridging the class divide through conscription are valid arguments.

7: In the end, i personally don't believe that the need for conscription has enough utility for national defense when compared to the amount of resources we need to carry out this mammoth task. Unless our citizens start paying their taxes.

8: There however can be an ALTERNATIVE. Pakistan can certainly have a 'Military Training Program for Youth'. It won't be mandatory. It would be for adult males only. Candidates must volunteer for the program. Age limit should from 17-35. Program length from 6-10 weeks. Curriculum should include, support roles, ambush tactics, military communication, drill, PT, firearms training and hand to hand combat. This program should be the ONLY way to attain a firearm's license in Pakistan.

Consequently, over a long period of time, we would have a properly trained firearm owning citizenry, rather than trigger happy rural cowboys with zero trigger or firearm discipline, simply because no one has ever trained them in firearms safety. Pakistan Army's retired soldiers and officers can be paid and tasked with carrying out a nationwide training program, which will solve a big veterans problem too, since some of them retire in their mid or late 40s while their kids are still undergoing transition i.e careers or marriages, which puts a fiscal strain on them. Candidates should be brought from all corners of the state, so they have interaction with fellow citizens from different ethnolinguistic backgrounds. Females would be included in support roles training.

I believe such a volunteer only model would be a more pragmatic solution which would boost discipline and national cohesion amongst the youth as well as would add utility to Pakistan's security apparatus by creating a 4th line of defense for the country or a highly trained civil defense force, which can be called into action in case of a war, natural calamities, vaccination campaigns and IDP crises we face so often. It would certainly relieve much burden from Army's shoulders when citizens start taking some share of responsibility.

Written by Horus - Pakistan Defence Administrator.

Thank You.

Pakistan Defence | #Horus | SHARE

In response to > Mandatory military service — anyone? - Blogs - DAWN.COM
a country with millions of pathans and punjabis doesn't need conscription…. our people will volunteer before and die before any need for a draft.
 
As we saw 1965 war that the people can and will fight for this country and our religion also condones the method of people fighting for what they believe in. Conscription can work out for pakistan in the future in stabler enviorment as the people can and will defend their own homes against any invading invader however to implement it, there must be a self defense class for citizen, which can allow them to fight against soldiers in the battlefield.

However a few guidelines must be passed along with it like

1. Amount of inductees in the civil defense program?
2. Age at which Civil defense training should be used and at what age it should be cut off?
3. The amount of pay and benefits if the civil defense union is employed in a war situation?
4. Under what level of leadership will the civil defense union be employed in a war. Will it be a mix with soldiers or will they fight as a separate regiment?
5. How many inductees should be employed in a year. Should there be any limiters on them?
6. Awards and medals for them if they do heroic deeds in a war? will they be eligible for Nishan-e-haider?

All of this is too difficult to implement and we just dont have the resources to focus on this however i agree with horus, as what we can do is open up programs for civil training rather than forcing them to fight. This way they will have the discipline of self defense and will also have the ability to use and understand firearms. Ofcourse firearm safety will thought there as well to control gun violence.
 
I, recently read this rather interesting blog on DAWN by Sami Shah, which calls for a mandatory military conscription to be introduced in Pakistan. On its surface it seems like a good idea with some solid arguments, though there are following issues, i think which must be added into this debate.

1: Pakistan already has the 6th largest 'standing Army' in the world. All of our Soldiers are career soldiers, who are highly trained, disciplined, battle hardened and forward looking. Our Army is fully capable of defending Pakistan from 'multi axis' invasions. The new Pakistani doctrine (name of which is still classified) has been theorised, tested, counter tested and adopted as a result of Azm-e-Nau exercises which were started under General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

2: No nuclear power in the world has conscription, simply because after the introduction of a nuclear triad into the security paradigm, the numerical disadvantage against a larger foe becomes almost irrelevant. Nuclear weapons are an ultimate guarantee of national sovereignty. They are not a weapon of last resort but a weapon of diplomacy. We saw this dynamic playing its role when Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi had to postpone, Indira Gandhi's ambition to 'undo Pakistan' through Operation Brasstacks in 1988, after realizing that Pakistan had a nuclear deterrent. Half a million Indian soldiers and support staff were unilaterally withdrawn after a meeting between General Zia and Rajiv.

3: Countries like Turkey, South Korea, Singapore have mandatory conscription for their own reasons. They are not nuclear powers themselves but are surrounded by nuclear powers which also have large armies i.e Russia, North Korea, China and India. It means their threat calculus is different from Pakistan which calls for a different solution.

4: The argument presented in regards to a cataclysmic scenario involving multi axis invasions by regional states, on top of fifth columns starting multiple coordinated insurrections sounds a solid argument, however, what must be noted is that neither Afghanistan nor Iran has the 'military capability' to mount an invasion into Pakistan, due to mountainous terrain which is a natural deterrent to such invasions as none of those nations would be able to mobilize assets in enough quantities to outwit and defeat Pakistani defenses, especially in the presence of Pakistan Air Force, which remains dominant in that region. As far as the insurgents are concerned, they are being tracked down and eliminated by Pakistan's security agencies. They don't pose a bigger threat than they already do.

5: I must disappoint the feminists here. Women are simply not suited for 'combat'. All armed services have increased the intake of women professionals in roles in which they are most effective. Adding women into conscription doesn't equal gender equality. We should perhaps start with reforming the draconian laws which we have legislated for our women citizenry.

6: Arguments about national cohesion and bridging the class divide through conscription are valid arguments.

7: In the end, i personally don't believe that the need for conscription has enough utility for national defense when compared to the amount of resources we need to carry out this mammoth task. Unless our citizens start paying their taxes.

8: There however can be an ALTERNATIVE. Pakistan can certainly have a 'Military Training Program for Youth'. It won't be mandatory. It would be for adult males only. Candidates must volunteer for the program. Age limit should from 17-35. Program length from 6-10 weeks. Curriculum should include, support roles, ambush tactics, military communication, drill, PT, firearms training and hand to hand combat. This program should be the ONLY way to attain a firearm's license in Pakistan.

Consequently, over a long period of time, we would have a properly trained firearm owning citizenry, rather than trigger happy rural cowboys with zero trigger or firearm discipline, simply because no one has ever trained them in firearms safety. Pakistan Army's retired soldiers and officers can be paid and tasked with carrying out a nationwide training program, which will solve a big veterans problem too, since some of them retire in their mid or late 40s while their kids are still undergoing transition i.e careers or marriages, which puts a fiscal strain on them. Candidates should be brought from all corners of the state, so they have interaction with fellow citizens from different ethnolinguistic backgrounds. Females would be included in support roles training.

I believe such a volunteer only model would be a more pragmatic solution which would boost discipline and national cohesion amongst the youth as well as would add utility to Pakistan's security apparatus by creating a 4th line of defense for the country or a highly trained civil defense force, which can be called into action in case of a war, natural calamities, vaccination campaigns and IDP crises we face so often. It would certainly relieve much burden from Army's shoulders when citizens start taking some share of responsibility.

Written by Horus - Pakistan Defence Administrator.

Thank You.

Pakistan Defence | #Horus | SHARE

In response to > Mandatory military service — anyone? - Blogs - DAWN.COM
my simple reason for compulsory military training is inculcation of discipline and habit of hardwork among the next generation. Both these elements are getting extinct in new generation. Having been dealing with youngsters in corporate sector, my feeling is getting stronger by the day. As a sideline some effects of unity will also seep in. At least through this way we can adopt UNITY FAITH DISCIPLIN
 
No, this is not the age for compulsory military conscriptions , its the age of economics what is needed is transforming the new generations to successful entrepreneur's ,the best thing about economical progress is that, with a rock solid economy comes a rock solid defense budget , that being said I do however advocate to increase the numbers of active troops from 624,000 @ present to 850,000 on the lines of south Korea where the training motto needs to be changed from the present faith based motivation to a more grounded in reality like motivation on better gears , technology , state of the art weapons , physics etc's
 
No Military Conscription but I'd rather that some sort of a 1-2 year long mandatory National Service be introduced whereby the Nation gets a ready supply of volunteers to do everything from planting trees to vaccinations & the Individual gets a sense of Nationalism knocked into them.
 
No Military Conscription but I'd rather that some sort of a 1-2 year long mandatory National Service be introduced whereby the Nation gets a ready supply of volunteers to do everything from planting trees to vaccinations & the Individual gets a sense of Nationalism knocked into them.

mote butt, how about my suggestion
No, this is not the age for compulsory military conscriptions , its the age of economics what is needed is transforming the new generations to successful entrepreneur's ,the best thing about economical progress is that, with a rock solid economy comes a rock solid defense budget , that being said I do however advocate to increase the numbers of active troops from 624,000 @ present to 850,000 on the lines of south Korea where the training motto needs to be changed from the present faith based motivation to a more grounded in reality like motivation on better gears , technology , state of the art weapons , physics etc's
trust me whenever I see those smart educated highly intelligent well geared ,gadgets, guns & impressive South Korean soldiers , cant explain you the jealousy I feel, I mean I met some south Korean soldiers ,man what knowledge, brilliant English & mannerism & no jazba e imaani vagera & all that, thoroughly steeped in practical ground reality , what gears yaar , what physics full six packed ,clean shaven, bullet proof waist, night vision net work centric communication equipped to the best stuffs & technology, man I so wish Pakistan had an army like that, Insha'Allah one day we will also have something like that can you believe it,their country area size is smaller then KPK & fata ! & they have more then 654,000 active troops ! all of them geared , gadgets , bullet proof waist & guns to the teeth & that too with top of the line equipments , to our 624,000 active troops in spite of us being close to 9 times larger in area size !
 
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I, recently read this rather interesting blog on DAWN by Sami Shah, which calls for a mandatory military conscription to be introduced in Pakistan. On its surface it seems like a good idea with some solid arguments, though there are following issues, i think which must be added into this debate.

1: Pakistan already has the 6th largest 'standing Army' in the world. All of our Soldiers are career soldiers, who are highly trained, disciplined, battle hardened and forward looking. Our Army is fully capable of defending Pakistan from 'multi axis' invasions. The new Pakistani doctrine (name of which is still classified) has been theorised, tested, counter tested and adopted as a result of Azm-e-Nau exercises which were started under General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

2: No nuclear power in the world has conscription, simply because after the introduction of a nuclear triad into the security paradigm, the numerical disadvantage against a larger foe becomes almost irrelevant. Nuclear weapons are an ultimate guarantee of national sovereignty. They are not a weapon of last resort but a weapon of diplomacy. We saw this dynamic playing its role when Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi had to postpone, Indira Gandhi's ambition to 'undo Pakistan' through Operation Brasstacks in 1988, after realizing that Pakistan had a nuclear deterrent. Half a million Indian soldiers and support staff were unilaterally withdrawn after a meeting between General Zia and Rajiv.

3: Countries like Turkey, South Korea, Singapore have mandatory conscription for their own reasons. They are not nuclear powers themselves but are surrounded by nuclear powers which also have large armies i.e Russia, North Korea, China and India. It means their threat calculus is different from Pakistan which calls for a different solution.

4: The argument presented in regards to a cataclysmic scenario involving multi axis invasions by regional states, on top of fifth columns starting multiple coordinated insurrections sounds a solid argument, however, what must be noted is that neither Afghanistan nor Iran has the 'military capability' to mount an invasion into Pakistan, due to mountainous terrain which is a natural deterrent to such invasions as none of those nations would be able to mobilize assets in enough quantities to outwit and defeat Pakistani defenses, especially in the presence of Pakistan Air Force, which remains dominant in that region. As far as the insurgents are concerned, they are being tracked down and eliminated by Pakistan's security agencies. They don't pose a bigger threat than they already do.

5: I must disappoint the feminists here. Women are simply not suited for 'combat'. All armed services have increased the intake of women professionals in roles in which they are most effective. Adding women into conscription doesn't equal gender equality. We should perhaps start with reforming the draconian laws which we have legislated for our women citizenry.

6: Arguments about national cohesion and bridging the class divide through conscription are valid arguments.

7: In the end, i personally don't believe that the need for conscription has enough utility for national defense when compared to the amount of resources we need to carry out this mammoth task. Unless our citizens start paying their taxes.

8: There however can be an ALTERNATIVE. Pakistan can certainly have a 'Military Training Program for Youth'. It won't be mandatory. It would be for adult males only. Candidates must volunteer for the program. Age limit should from 17-35. Program length from 6-10 weeks. Curriculum should include, support roles, ambush tactics, military communication, drill, PT, firearms training and hand to hand combat. This program should be the ONLY way to attain a firearm's license in Pakistan.

Consequently, over a long period of time, we would have a properly trained firearm owning citizenry, rather than trigger happy rural cowboys with zero trigger or firearm discipline, simply because no one has ever trained them in firearms safety. Pakistan Army's retired soldiers and officers can be paid and tasked with carrying out a nationwide training program, which will solve a big veterans problem too, since some of them retire in their mid or late 40s while their kids are still undergoing transition i.e careers or marriages, which puts a fiscal strain on them. Candidates should be brought from all corners of the state, so they have interaction with fellow citizens from different ethnolinguistic backgrounds. Females would be included in support roles training.

I believe such a volunteer only model would be a more pragmatic solution which would boost discipline and national cohesion amongst the youth as well as would add utility to Pakistan's security apparatus by creating a 4th line of defense for the country or a highly trained civil defense force, which can be called into action in case of a war, natural calamities, vaccination campaigns and IDP crises we face so often. It would certainly relieve much burden from Army's shoulders when citizens start taking some share of responsibility.

Written by Horus - Pakistan Defence Administrator.

Thank You.

Pakistan Defence | #Horus | SHARE

In response to > Mandatory military service — anyone? - Blogs - DAWN.COM
For me yes but if not conscription than at least 4 months military training after FSC and A levels and in case off war people who want to take part should be allowed @Horus
 

Pakistan doesn't recognize Israel.

my simple reason for compulsory military training is inculcation of discipline and habit of hardwork among the next generation. Both these elements are getting extinct in new generation. Having been dealing with youngsters in corporate sector, my feeling is getting stronger by the day. As a sideline some effects of unity will also seep in. At least through this way we can adopt UNITY FAITH DISCIPLIN

Forced conscription is never a good idea. I have met Turks, South Koreans and Singaporeans who were quite unhappy with this system.
 
Conscription is simply not needed. It would not only lower the level of discipline and professionalism within the military, but also increase costs that Pakistan simply cannot afford. I truly believe that it would do more harm than good. Pakistan already has a militarily dominating hand in the region (if you exclude India), and there is no real threat of invasion or attack from a foreign nation, why would conscription be needed?
 
poor countries do not need conscription.. its very easy to get sepoy from the population engaged in agriculte/low end jobs...
also PA gives excellent career progression to officer cadre (position of ruler of pak if lucky) ... I think they have been more successful than IA in attracting talent at officer cadre.
 

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