Army’s questionable decisions

the constitutional scheme of things: it is the government that is supposed to give orders to the army, not the other way around.

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Since when? It's always been the other way around!

But seriously, a leader is supposed to lead from the front. Where was Imran Khan and his lieutenants? They were all hiding in containers - their make-shift bunkers hundreds of meters away from the scene of action, whilst their people were getting gassed and lathi charged by the police. They should have been in the front to prevent the mobs from destroying government and private property and control the mayhem and chaos that resulted due to a complete lack of leadership! And he wants to be Pakistan's next PM?

Pulsar said:

Since when? It's always been the other way around!

But seriously, a leader is supposed to lead from the front. Where was Imran Khan and his lieutenants? They were all hiding in containers - their make-shift bunkers hundreds of meters away from the scene of action, whilst their people were getting gassed and lathi charged by the police. They should have been in the front to prevent the mobs from destroying government and private property and control the mayhem and chaos that resulted due to a complete lack of leadership! And he wants to be Pakistan's next PM?

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So if your logic is correct, it should be the COAS (since he is the ultimate leader and commander of the force) who should be the first to fire the bullet and charge the attack. Since he is sitting in the GHQ or whatever command post away from the battle scene, he is coward. Good, keep going.

Jzaib said:

The problem with some journalist and PMLN supporters is that they treat army like police. Follow order and murder for them, change the inquiry report. Army have been neutral so far and i dnt why PMLN is pushing them toward PTI .. every day they commit a new blunder and then they ask why is army against them .. Nawaz sharif have to give independence to institution. hiring your own people and then make them do corruption for u. Due to this attitude no one get justice in Pakistan, justice is only for sharif family.

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The biggest problem Nawaz (and other corrupt politicians for that matter) has with the Army is, he cant appoint his Gullu Butts in the Army. These corrupt politicians have destroyed each and every institution of the country by appointing their Gullu Butts, now only the Military is left from their criminal accesses, and they wont sit idle unless they also managed to destroy it. Now we have to see if Army will let it happen or not.

Tameem said:

There never was a doubt about it that "Kut-ti Choran nal ralee hoyee aye"........shame on PA for conspiring against constitution and their oath......the saddest part is that it never was the first time nor the last

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Especially what promoters of non-violence did for themselves in Okara just few weeks ago. Imagine if these protesters had blocked GHQ and started body search of every general and solider entering and exiting it.....Yesterday the pictures of mob body searching police/civil servants/Civilians/MPs entering Pak Secretariat/PTV and Parliament broke my heart and I saw the death of the State of Pakistan in Islamabad with Rangers/FC/Soldiers watching from distance and doing nothing. And I asked myself even the Lal Masjid mob never did what this mob was able to do. Their demands for Shariat were as just as this mobs however, they never attacked any state building nor captured it. If these mobsters are here for "shahdat" then the casualties in Laal Masjid embraced more pure shahdat than this.
Pakistan's biggest enemies are not India/US/Israel/Afghanistan but Pakistanis themselves.
Somebody rightly said, "Allah Pakistan ko Pakistayon key shar se bachay"

SBD-3 said:

Especially what promoters of non-violence did for themselves in Okara just few weeks ago. Imagine if these protesters had blocked GHQ and started body search of every general and solider entering and exiting it.....

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Why would they? Why imagine nonsense in the first place? Did Army send Police in the middle of the night to remove High Court-sanctioned barriers? Did Army kill 14 of their men? Did Army injured 84 over people? Did Army stop food and water to go into Minhaj? Did Army send its Gullu Butts to lead a force? Did Army deny filing of the FIR? Imagine if, what imagine if?

syedali73 said:

If the answer is no,then why should Army clean up the mess that is created by the government?

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Why is that in Pakistan, the army is seen as independent of the government? In any other democracy, the army would do what it is told to be the elected leaders, it would be one of the tools for cleaning up messes.

I saw a photograph on the news of PM Nawaz Sharif's meeting with the CoAS. They were seated like equals, almost like NS meeting other heads of government/State. I couldn't possibly conceive of a similar picture with the Indian PM & the Indian CoAS. It would be unthinkable. Regardless of what outcome happens here, I believe that Pakistan's democracy is grieviously wounded. Individuals will come & they will go but the debasement of institutions will be very costly for Pakistan.

Bang Galore said:

Why is that in Pakistan, the army is seen as independent of the government? In any other democracy, the army would do what it is told to be the elected leaders, it would be one of the tools for cleaning up messes.

I saw a photograph on the news of PM Nawaz Sharif's meeting with the CoAS. They were seated like equals, almost like NS meeting other heads of government/State. I couldn't possibly conceive of a similar picture with the Indian PM & the Indian CoAS. It would be unthinkable. Regardless of what outcome happens here, I believe that Pakistan's democracy is grieviously wounded. Individuals will come & they will go but the debasement of institutions will be very costly for Pakistan.

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What? Should the COAS have been sitting on the floor? The most ridiculous thing I've heard so far.

pakman12 said:

What? Should the COAS have been sitting on the floor? The most ridiculous thing I've heard so far.

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Nope but usally across the table in the PM's office, not like a head of state. Let alone the CoAS, no minister however senior would ever act the PM's equal. There are matters of protocol here, something that most of you clearly don't care about. It is not as if the Indian PM does not mix casually but whenever there are official images issued of a formal meeting, the protocols that are followed are very clear.

syedali73 said:

Why would they? Why imagine nonsense in the first place? Did Army send Police in the middle of the night to remove High Court-sanctioned barriers? Did Army kill 14 of their men? Did Army injured 84 over people? Did Army stop food and water to go into Minhaj? Did Army send its Gullu Butts to lead a force? Did Army deny filing of the FIR? Imagine if, what imagine if?

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Well I quoted you the Okara incident. If you have some moral courage then probably do look for details.

Some food for thought:

Jumhoriat ka Husan | A Rebuttal to 'Army's questionable decisions' by DAWN.

Xeric's Primer: Jamhuriat Ka Husn

arushbhai said:

Army is probably the biggest hypocrite institution in Pakistan. These generals are millionaires and are on a US pay roll. They pretend to be the champions of democracy but at the same time, they are busy conspiring against the government for their own benefit. Javed Hashmi has fully exposed how the retiring generals of pak army were conspiring with the help of imran to topple the government so their duration can be extended.

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Not fan of army , if see the top richest people of Pakistan, you won't find any army General.

I have also posted these three points on another thread. Just to calrify confusion in some minds:

1. The right to protest is NOT the right to riot , and in no way it is right to disturb law and order anywhere in the world.

2. The protest is universally a moral tool: it dies not bind anyone to do anything though a democratic government feels obliged to do something, but that something is arbitrary: no one can dictate terms.

3. Democracy in its essence is a means of doing away with the use of force in the change of governments. If you stick to the force of any type, then you have left democracy.

HAIDER said:

Not fan of army , if see the top richest people of Pakistan, you won't find any army General.

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Why should servants of government be among the richest people? Strange thinking! don't comapre politicians and servants please. even first time MNA and MPAs sitting in opposition are krorpati from pakistani standards.