Questions to ask your pro-Israeli friends

The SC said:

The Arabs are the descendants of the fertile crescent civilization, the Egyptian civilization and you can find other clues of their civilizations in the deserts of Arabia too.

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Arabs belong to the Arabian peninsula. Assyrians or Babylonians or Phoenicians were not Arabs.

shuntmaster said:

The ancient nation of Israel is a historical fact and not a figment of any myth.
If history is of in-consequence, then Arabs too don't have any claim on the holy lands.

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We are talking about States and not Nations. Please learn the difference. The State of Israel came into being in 1948.

A.P. Richelieu said:

If you leave your home, and it later gets occupied, you have forfeited your rights to live there,
and are at the mercy of the occupiers.
At least I have not found any International Law that gives you right to return.
If you leave your country after it is occupied, you do have the right of return
according to the fourth Geneva Convention.

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Bad analogy if you ask me ...coz according to laws of any country...the home is rightfully under your name and no one has the rights to kick you out...

BTW, I think Jews are the ones who left....and are returning to that area....of course forgetting the adjustment to population explosion as compared to when "GOD GAVE IT TO THEM"

A.P. Richelieu said:

As an occupier of the West Bank, Israel has the right to relocate people for valid military reasons.

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Sooo.... Israel is occupying West bank and not agreeing to the 2 state theory British rulers commanded it to? @Syed.Ali.Haider you have your answer there

A.P. Richelieu said:

Legally, it is a mess, since Israel only have to apply the Geneva Convention when in conflict with parties
which accepts the Geneva Convention. Palestinians only signed the necessary treaties in 2014.
It is therefore possible to claim in court that only land occupied after the treaties are ratified.
Obviously that is an extreme position.

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Lets not play with legal words like Israel shall we:

The Geneva Convention
It is widely accepted that under international law, the Jewish settlements in the territories occupied by Israel in 1967 are illegal.

Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the protection of civilian persons in time of war states: "The occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own population into the territories it occupies."

Within the international community the overwhelming view is that Article 49 is applicable to the occupation of the West Bank including East Jerusalem, the Gaza Strip and the Golan Heights.

Almost the entire international community, including allies of Israel, have referred to the situation in these territories as occupation.

The position that the 4th Geneva Convention does apply to the West Bank, Gaza and Golan Heights is supported by the International Committee of the Red Cross, UN bodies, and the International Court of Justice.

Israel is a party to the Geneva Conventions, and bound by its obligations.

But its government argues that the international conventions relating to occupied land do not apply to the Palestinian territories because they were not under the legitimate sovereignty of any state in the first place.

Israel has over the years often chosen to use the term administered territories to refer to Gaza and the West Bank. It has annexed the Golan and East Jerusalem.

Israel therefore denies the formal, de jure, applicability of the 4th Geneva Convention in the occupied territories.

Israel does formally accept the applicability of the Hague Regulations on occupation, and says it is acting under authority granted to an occupying power in international law (including in provisions of the 4th Geneva Convention). The 4th Geneva Convention and the Hague Regulations contain detailed rules on the administration of occupied territory.

The Israeli Supreme Court (sitting as High Court of Justice in Beit Sourik Village Council v The Government of Israel 2004) has noted: "The general point of departure of all parties - which is also our point of departure - is that Israel holds the area in belligerent occupation (occupatio bellica)."

BBC News - The Geneva Convention


Israel is choosing and mixing whatever it wishes to apply and what it doesnt...such states are said to have gone rogue! It is violating the convention because Israel itself is under it ...so by that convention it is obliged to follow it....."The occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own population into the territories it occupies."

It is absurd to say the occupied territories are not under the convention so it doesnt apply....If you have occupied a land by no means you are gonna give it rights to join conventions which will benefit it and cause your doings to be questioned!

BTW, they joined on April 2nd ....has Israel backed off since then? Nope just more rockets...Please make sense when you attempt to answer....twisting laws to soothe yourself can only work soo many times

shuntmaster said:

Arabs belong to the Arabian peninsula. Assyrians or Babylonians or Phoenicians were not Arabs.

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In the same tone Indians belong to Hindustan please go back to your land

Akheilos said:

Sooo.... Israel is occupying West bank and not agreeing to the 2 state theory British rulers commanded it to? @Syed.Ali.Haider you have your answer there

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The 2 state theory would have been applicable if the Palestinians had accepted the British plan. They did not, and thus their position becomes one of illegal belligerents against the State that continued with legal administrative control after the British left.

A.P. Richelieu said:

The partition of the former British Mandate of Palestine by the United Nations
was made through a vote in the General Assembly, which is more or less a recommendation,
and as such a good legal basis to form a state, but it is not as significant as a vote in the UNSC.

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Were the parties involved I dont know Palestinians asked about it? You do realize it was something soo wrong no one can sum up the courage to point it out...

Why? Coz Palestine was not an uninhibited land that could be given to Israel without mentioning or giving account of the people already there

A.P. Richelieu said:

What Palestinians needs to do is to show Israelis,
that they can live in security, even with an independent state of Palestine.

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Yes Palestine needs to do everything Israel just needs to keep killing, torturing inflicting its control freak self on all their daily necessities and Palestinians shouldnt utter a word coz the world doesnt need to know that Israel is transgressing anything but by all means shower on Russia for touching Ukraine

Syed.Ali.Haider said:

The 2 state theory would have been applicable if the Palestinians had accepted the British plan. They did not, and thus their position becomes one of illegal belligerents against the State that continued with legal administrative control after the British left.

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And when did Israel hold their end of the bargain? They got a piece where they were settled then they started inviting every Jew from around the world to help populate and expand.....it didnt happen overnight and it for sure wasnt part of the treaty either!

A.P. Richelieu said:

The current government of Israel does not believe that real peace is a possibility.
Trying to discuss peace with Bibi will not give any results, and the right wingers
are even worse. Obviously it is totally meaningless discussing peace with
Hamas and even more extreme organisations like Islamic Jihad.

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Yet they are the ones who are kept on hold for offering a ceasefire agreement by demanding rights for Palestinians! How dare they demand for rights!

A.P. Richelieu said:

Bibi believes Status Quo is the best deal Israel can get, and the Palestinians has proved him right over and over again.
Palestinians must prove him wrong.
Hamas, Islamic Jihad etc must be thrown out, and a new leadership must emerge, which
is not tainted by PA corruption.
By signing the ICC treaties, and extraditing Palestinian war criminals (most Gaza leadership)
Palestinians can get rid of fanatics blocking an agreement.
Also need to learn peaceful resistance.

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He should prove to the world that he can deal with more than his ego! New leadership? You mean one that will allow them to be executed faster? Or one who doesnt raise voice against Israeli aggression?

Peaceful terms doesnt come with bodybags of your children for playing on the beach....

Akheilos said:

And when did Israel hold their end of the bargain? They got a piece where they were settled then they started inviting every Jew from around the world to help populate and expand.....it didnt happen overnight and it for sure wasnt part of the treaty either!

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Once Israel accepted the plan that was endorsed by the United Nations, it became a sovereign state which can legally take all the actions that it did, rightfully. The Palestinians refused to participate in this process and were left out because of their illegal status.

A.P. Richelieu said:

so the most important
conclusion is that Palestinians are worse criminals.

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Oh yea they are....yet they seem to be dying in larger numbers....I wonder how latest technology and state of the art arms dealers are the poor souls as compared to home made rockets? and not to mention all the stories coming from ex-IDF....maybe you can close your eyes and sleep well but those who lost their loved ones are the ones who are recruited into HAMAS for revenge...

Hence, in another way Israel is making HAMAS more popular by granting them free recruits (any father, brother, son) who has seen their family die is a free recruit....

Syed.Ali.Haider said:

Once Israel accepted the plan that was endorsed by the United Nations, it became a sovereign state which can legally take all the actions that it did, rightfully. The Palestinians refused to participate in this process and were left out because of their illegal status.

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Well, honestly putting it....All decisions were taken either by Egypt or Jordan...I am not sure when Palestine had a say in it? Only when Arafat was breathing probably and that is when Israel got itchy hands and started supporting HAMAS as an opposing power to Arafat...coz he was granting Palestinians a legal status (or at least tried)....read up that part how Israel supported HAMAS to get famous

Gotta go to the lab so later

Akheilos said:

Well, honestly putting it....All decisions were taken either by Egypt or Jordan...I am not sure when Palestine had a say in it? Only when Arafat was breathing probably and that is when Israel got itchy hands and started supporting HAMAS as an opposing power to Arafat...coz he was granting Palestinians a legal status (or at least tried)....read up that part how Israel supported HAMAS to get famous
Gotta go to the lab so later

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The reason Egypt and Jordan were involved was because they were the legal and sovereign nations on whose assurances the Palestinians rejected the partition plan and chose to go to war, but lost. What happened afterwards still places the Palestinians at a great legal disadvantage, which cannot be rectified until they agree to the partition plan and then negotiate for the best deal possible to create their own legal and sovereign state of Palestine. They could have done this decades ago but chose not to do so. It still remains to be seen whether they will realize it even now.

Syed.Ali.Haider said:

What happened afterwards still places the Palestinians at a great legal disadvantage, which cannot be rectified until they agree to the partition plan and then negotiate for the best deal possible to create their own legal and sovereign state of Palestine.

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What if they are told they already agreed so no negotiation?!

Akheilos said:

What if they are told they already agreed so no negotiation?!

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Who told what to whom? Please clarify.

Syed.Ali.Haider said:

Who told what to whom? Please clarify.

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Damn need to run back to the lab....

I quoted you

Syed.Ali.Haider said:

until they agree to the partition plan and then negotiate for the best deal possible to create their own legal and sovereign state of Palestine.

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What if Palestinians accepted it and then started negotiation and were told dude you accepted it...take it as it is...and shown the door?

Akheilos said:

What if Palestinians accepted it and then started negotiation and were told dude you accepted it...take it as it is...and shown the door?

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That is only a hypothetical flight. Likely such negotiations would have a third party like the UN involved to ensure that the end result is practical and accepted by both parties.

so much energy and time spent in writing comments to misguide people about Palestinian problems but none for millions of black Muslims who die of hunger in Somalia.... so sad.

freshmint said:

so much energy and time spent in writing comments to misguide people about Palestinian problems but none for millions of black Muslims who die of hunger in Somalia.... so sad.

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Well the sad part is there is too much funding going in Africa again to make them slave for their own resources and with that much money being pumped 1 would expect Africa to rise unfortunately the money is pumped by NGOs and foreign investors making sure all profits go back to them...

The case for West Africa is not even shortage of Money...it is just lack of circulation...a very different scenario as compared to Palestine issue

Resistance is the answer, not begging for understanding or mercy from the oppressors and their supporters.