The Uyghur issue

if you have not problem with Islam, why you forbid pray in Turkestan and why only communism books are free in Mosque ?

If they pray and read Quran your police come and arrest them then nobody can't see them again!

of course they are killed because of Islam so Uyghurs reject communissm ideas.

Also i watched some documantery about Han Chinese which took by europian, they says Han Chinese never minds other minority, They think them as worthless animals.

So Hui Muslim already from Han Chinese and they are accept communism ideas they only called as Muslim

--

Also haidian dont forget what you said before...

haidian said:

Maybe they converted millions of Han Chinese during that time period..

Click to expand...

You fear from Uyghur Turks because they convert to people to Islam this way you allways have persecution them...

haidian said:

Ethnic problems will never go away ,not in China, not in Turkey. so please say something that you truly believe.

Click to expand...

True, but what i believe is that Uyghurs (and other minorities in China) do not have enough rights yet. Turkey is also not perfect yet, but Kurds in Turkey can form their own parties, which sometimes make anti-govt sounds too. this is so important, to hear what the minority feels and votes for. If China could allow this, you and me would know better what Uyghurs in general want.

Fattyacids said:

When Uyghur moved into Xinjiang around 700 AD, there were no more Tocharians left, they were driven out by Xiongnu 2000 years ago.

Uyghur are 30-40% East Asian mix.

Click to expand...

Tocharians still existed in the Xinjiang region when the Uyghurs migrated there in the 7th century. Tocharian languages were also still spoken in the kingdom of Khotan untill the Turkic Khara khanids conquered the kingdom in the 10th century. Then the Indo-European Tocharians and the Khotanese Sakas assimilated into the new Uyghur ethnic group

Uyghurs are on average a 50/50 East Asian/European mix. In Northern Xinjiang they are slightly more Mongoloid, while in Southern Xinjiang cities like Hotan they are genetically more Caucasoid.

[TR]AHMET said:

if you have not problem with Islam, why you forbid pray in Turkestan and why only communism books are free in Mosque ?

If they pray and read Quran your police come and arrest them then nobody can't see them again!

of course they are killed because of Islam Uyghurs reject communissm ideas.

Also i watched some documantery about Han Chinese which took by europian, they says Han Chinese never minds other minority, They think them as worthless animals.

So Hui Muslim already from Han Chinese and they are accept communism ideas they only called as Muslim

--

Also haidian dont forget what you said before...



You fear from Uyghur Turks because they convert to people to Islam this way you allways have persecution them...

Click to expand...

Many Hui religious leaders are allowed a great deal of power by the Communist Party, there is a Sufi Hui leader who runs a massive network of Mosques and schools in Ningxia by himself.

Faith flourishes in an arid wasteland | South China Morning Post

Prayer is not banned for the citizens, its impossible to ban prayer when people do it in their own homes! Prayer is only banned for Communist Party officials. Xinjiang is open to foreigners, including Pakistani traders and tourists from all over the world, and foreign officials.

Turkish prime minister visits China | World news | theguardian.com

The Mosques are also available to tourists who can see the Uyghurs there at prayer times. Id Kah Mosque was only closed during several protests last year, it reopened for prayer, any foreign tourist can come and see it for themselves. Many western tourists go to Kashgar every year.

Kashgar Id Kah Mosque, Xinjiang, China

There are some Turks who hate non Turkish people as well so what is your point about the documentary asking individuals whether they are bigots or not?

Most Uyghurs live in the Tarim Basin (southern Xinjiang), which has an over 90% Uyghur majority and they don't meet many Han, let alone talk about Islam to them. Most in the Tarim also do not speak Mandarin.

In Northern Xinjiang the Uyghurs live with Han, but they are less religious.

Many Uyghur separatists like Ehmetjan Qasim and Rebiya Kadeer's father served with the Soviet Communists, or were Communists themselves. The Uyghurs in the Communist East Turkestan People's Revolutionary Party (ETPRP) were supplied with weapons by the Soviet Union to attack China. They were crushed for being separatist, not because they rejected communism- they were Communist themselves! The Second East Turkestan Republic was a Uyghur Communist separatist state. During the 1960s people who displayed pro-Soviet/pro-Russian inclinations, like for example, saying they liked Russian food, could potentially be locked up as a separatist, because of the paranoia caused by the Soviet supported attacks by the ETPRP.

Many Uyghurs in the Urumqi area and the north Xinjiang displayed pro-Soviet-Russian inclinations during the Cold War, they gave their children Russian personal names or added "ov" to their surname, like Ehmetjan Qasim did to change his name to Kasimov. They were Russophilic and liked Russian culture, Rebiya Kadeer herself said her family had Russian friends and spoke Russian in her book.

This is why many of them worked for the Soviet Union and Stalin in the Ili Rebellion when they set up the Second East Turkestan Republic, and they joined the Soviet Communist Party like Ehmetjan Qasim and went to study at Soviet Communist run schools. Rebiya Kadeer mentioned that the Soviet Communists ran a Russian school in Xinjiang which Uyghurs attended.

In the south Xinjiang in the Tarim Basin, the Uyghur are more religious and didn't do that.

China was against the pro-Soviet Communist regime in Afghanistan, many small arms were provided by China to be shipped to Pakistan for the Afghan Mujahideen.

Wholegrain said:

Many Hui religious leaders are allowed a great deal of power by the Communist Party, there is a Sufi Hui leader who runs a massive network of Mosques and schools in Ningxia by himself.

Faith flourishes in an arid wasteland | South China Morning Post

Prayer is not banned for the citizens, its impossible to ban prayer when people do it in their own homes! Prayer is only banned for Communist Party officials. Xinjiang is open to foreigners, including Pakistani traders and tourists from all over the world, and foreign officials.

Turkish prime minister visits China | World news | theguardian.com

The Mosques are also available to tourists who can see the Uyghurs there at prayer times. Id Kah Mosque was only closed during several protests last year, it reopened for prayer, any foreign tourist can come and see it for themselves. Many western tourists go to Kashgar every year.

Kashgar Id Kah Mosque, Xinjiang, China

There are some Turks who hate non Turkish people as well so what is your point about the documentary asking individuals whether they are bigots or not?

Most Uyghurs live in the Tarim Basin (southern Xinjiang), which has an over 90% Uyghur majority and they don't meet many Han, let alone talk about Islam to them. Most in the Tarim also do not speak Mandarin.

In Northern Xinjiang the Uyghurs live with Han, but they are less religious.

Many Uyghur separatists like Ehmetjan Qasim and Rebiya Kadeer's father served with the Soviet Communists, or were Communists themselves. The Uyghurs in the Communist East Turkestan People's Revolutionary Party (ETPRP) were supplied with weapons by the Soviet Union to attack China. They were crushed for being separatist, not because they rejected communism- they were Communist themselves! The Second East Turkestan Republic was a Uyghur Communist separatist state. During the 1960s people who displayed pro-Soviet/pro-Russian inclinations, like for example, saying they liked Russian food, could potentially be locked up as a separatist, because of the paranoia caused by the Soviet supported attacks by the ETPRP.

Many Uyghurs in the Urumqi area and the north Xinjiang displayed pro-Soviet-Russian inclinations during the Cold War, they gave their children Russian personal names or added "ov" to their surname, like Ehmetjan Qasim did to change his name to Kasimov. They were Russophilic and liked Russian culture, Rebiya Kadeer herself said her family had Russian friends and spoke Russian in her book.

This is why many of them worked for the Soviet Union and Stalin in the Ili Rebellion when they set up the Second East Turkestan Republic, and they joined the Soviet Communist Party like Ehmetjan Qasim and went to study at Soviet Communist run schools. Rebiya Kadeer mentioned that the Soviet Communists ran a Russian school in Xinjiang which Uyghurs attended.

In the south Xinjiang in the Tarim Basin, the Uyghur are more religious and didn't do that.

China was against the pro-Soviet Communist regime in Afghanistan, many small arms were provided by China to be shipped to Pakistan for the Afghan Mujahideen.

Click to expand...

China killed millions people and your goverment tested nuclear weapons in east Turkestan so how can i trust of your sources.

Our Turkish sources says you killed 50 millions people in china since 1949 and 35 millions of them was Uyghur Turks.

I read about your inhuman tortures, i saw lots of tortured photos and videos i know lots of about your sins...

You can only talk but trues are trues!

[TR]AHMET said:

China killed millions people and your goverment tested nuclear weapons in east Turkestan so how can i trust of your sources.

Our Turkish sources says you killed 50 millions people in china since 1949 and 35 millions of them was Uyghur Turks.

I read about your inhuman tortures, i saw lots of tortured photos and videos i know lots of about your sins...

You can only talk but trues are trues!

Click to expand...

35 million is definately an overstatement

[TR]AHMET said:

China killed millions people and your goverment tested nuclear weapons in east Turkestan so how can i trust of your sources.

Our Turkish sources says you killed 50 millions people in china since 1949 and 35 millions of them was Uyghur Turks.

I read about your inhuman tortures, i saw lots of tortured photos and videos i know lots of about your sins...

You can only talk but trues are trues!

Click to expand...

Do you expect people to believe what you type friend by quoting some Turkish sources? .

[TR]AHMET said:

China killed millions people and your goverment tested nuclear weapons in east Turkestan so how can i trust of your sources.

Our Turkish sources says you killed 50 millions people in china since 1949 and 35 millions of them was Uyghur Turks.

I read about your inhuman tortures, i saw lots of tortured photos and videos i know lots of about your sins...

You can only talk but trues are trues!

Click to expand...

None of the sources I cited about the Uyghurs were Chinese, I even cited Rebiya Kadeer's autobiography, yet you cite youtube videos. Rebiya Kadeer herself wrote in her book that Uyghurs in her area were pro-Russian/Soviet. I only cited one Hong Kong newspaper article about the Hui Sufis, and the tourist website about Id Kah Mosque, which you can easily check out for yourself as a tourist, when tons of foreign tourists and businessmen, including Muslims and westerners, go into Xinjiang every single year.

Both of these are non-Chinese sources in the history of Uyghur population in Xinjiang, they show population growth. Professor Beller-Hann specializes on Uyghurs.

Ildiko Beller-Hann – University of Copenhagen

Community Matters in Xinjiang, 1880-1949: Towards a Historical Anthropology ... - Ildikó Bellér-Hann - Google Books

of Xinjiang, Toops gives an overall figure and the province population in 1941 of 3,730,000, of which 2,984,000 were Uyghur, 187,000 Han, 326,000 Kazakh, 92,000 Hui and 65,000 Kirghiz.46 For 1949, Hoppe estimates the total population to be 4,334,000

Click to expand...

China's Geography: Globalization and the Dynamics of Political, Economic ... - Google Books

In the mid-1960s, there were about 4 million Uygur and 500,000 Kazaks. By 1982, the Uygur population had grown to almost 6 million, and Kazaks numbered over 900,000.

Click to expand...

The 50 million dead in China were starvation deaths from the Great Leap Foward and none of the famine victims were Uyghur, it didn't even happen in Xinjiang.

http://archive.iussp.org/members/restricted/publications/Kashiwa09/Chapter07.pdf

I already posted the link to Beller-Hann's book on how the name East Turkestan was created by a Russian in the 19th century, the original Uyghur name for the Tarim Basin is Altishahr, which means six cities. And Dzungaria (North Xinjiang) is Dzungar Oirat Mongol land, East Turkestan was only used to refer to the Tarim Basin in the 19th century.

Actually Turkestan pretty much used as a name referring to where Turks live, it wasn't originally a strict geoghraphical area, in Ottoman sources, sometimes regions where Turks were living in Anatolia were called Turkestan as well.

@Wholegrain

How do Han pushes to be majority in region today ? their numbers looks quite small in the estimations you gave ?

[TR]AHMET said:

China killed millions people and your goverment tested nuclear weapons in east Turkestan so how can i trust of your sources.

Our Turkish sources says you killed 50 millions people in china since 1949 and 35 millions of them was Uyghur Turks.

I read about your inhuman tortures, i saw lots of tortured photos and videos i know lots of about your sins...

You can only talk but trues are trues!

Click to expand...

Hey, what about the Kurds in Turkey huh? Why not complain how they are brutally treated? What is Turkey's truth?

xudeen said:

Hey, what about the Kurds in Turkey huh? Why not complain how they are brutally treated? What is Turkey's truth?

Click to expand...

Yet another one about Kurds. Kurds have it good when compared to the past, especially in the last decade they can't complain. Own political parties they can vote for, they participate in politics (ruling akp has many Kurdish officials too), they can study in own language soon, names in the region also get their own local Kurdish names etc. Unlike Uyghurs in China, Kurds have a real political voice and say in our country. Plus they are way more better treated in Turkey than in other neighbour countries. I won't believe all the negative and sometimes exaggerated western and Uyghur news about Uyghurs in China (just like how you shouldn't believe all western news about Kurds in Turkey), but without doubt there are still some news which contain truthful elements, so i believe that China still has some work to do in satisfying the Uyghurs and maybe the other minorities too.

China to reward spying on Uighurs in East Turkestan

Many Uighurs complain of Chinese controls on their culture and religion, with sporadic clashes between them and Han Chinese settlers resulting in more than 100 deaths in the region in the past year.
World Bulletin / News Desk

Authorities in China are offering cash rewards for everything from "violent terrorism training" to "growing long beards," the latest regulations in the targeting Uighur Muslims in East Turkestan (Xinjiang province).

The rewards are part of a social stability campaign in a troubled region in which the government has been cracking down on native Uighur Turks who want to establish an independent state.

Many Uighurs complain of Chinese controls on their culture and religion, with sporadic clashes between them and Han Chinese settlers resulting in more than 100 deaths in the region in the past year.

Uighur exiles and many rights groups trace the cause of unrest to government policies, including curbs on Islam and the Uighur people's culture and language.

Members of the public can earn rewards by reporting on a range of more than 50 activities, according to a notice published on a government website for Shaya county in mid-April and carried in state media this week.

Verified information regarding violations such as "violent terrorism training activities" and behaviour with "separatist aims" can earn an informant up to 50,000 yuan ($8,000).

Information on individuals "growing long beards" and "wearing bizarre clothing" can yield rewards from 50 to 500 yuan, the county government said.

"Timely reporting of social stability information can actively prevent and precisely strike at all kinds of illegal offences," it said in the notice.

Providing information about people who "say things that are not good for ethnic unity" and who "twist facts" about a deadly July 2009 riot in the regional capital Urumqi are also worth up to 500 yuan, the county government said.

Nearly 200 people were killed in the Urumqi riot when Uighurs clashed with members of the ethnic Han Chinese community.

It is not the first time authorities have targeted beards and clothing such as burqas and veils.

"Restricting traditional culture, faith and lifestyles, proves the utter failure of China's local governance," Dilxat Raxit, spokesman for the main Uighur exile group, the World Uyghur Congress, said in a emailed statement this week.

China to reward spying on Uighurs in East Turkestan | Asia-Pasific | Worldbulletin News

Targon said:

Actually Turkestan pretty much used as a name referring to where Turks live, it wasn't originally a strict geoghraphical area, in Ottoman sources, sometimes regions where Turks were living in Anatolia were called Turkestan as well.

Click to expand...

+1 and Azerbaijan in some historical sources, particularly Safavid period (for instance Shah Ismail was known as the "Pir of Turkistan" to Ahl-i Haqq, in which Turkistan meant Azerbaijan)

Not related to this issue but I have question to Chinese friends, is there a some kind of trend among Chinese teens to get nicknames from a language/culture they're interested in ? I came across to many Chinese students from Turkey who were putting Turkish names in front of their names in Facebook, checked further I saw its not just Turkish but for example Chinese studying in Russia puts Russian name, Spain puts Spanish name etc.

China minorities fearful after Xi's 'terror' speech

Chinese President Xi Jinping said the Chinese public must "make terrorists become like rats scurrying across a street, with everybody shouting 'beat them'," causing concern that Tibetans and Uighurs may be targeted in ethnic crackdowns.
World Bulletin / News Desk

Chinese President Xi Jinping said on Saturday that China faces increasing threats to national security and warned of the dangers of "terrorism" in a speech indicating that Beijing could impose tougher controls on its ethnic minorities.

Xi told a study session of the party's decision-making Politburo "to resolutely stamp out the brazenness of the terrorists," the state-run Xinhua news agency said.

Xi's comments come at a sensitive time for China, as authorities battle unrest in the Tibetan regions and in East Turkestan (Xinjiang), home to Muslim Uighurs.

Unrest in East Turkestan has led to the deaths of more than 100 people in the past year, prompting a tougher stance against the native Uighur Turks of the region.

The government blames the violence in East Turkestan on separatists who want to establish an independent state in the far western region.

More than 120 Tibetans have set themselves on fire since 2009 to protest Beijing's rule, with many calling for the return of their exiled spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama.

Beijing says the self-immolators are "terrorists". Most have died from their injuries.

"We have to be clearly aware that in the new situation, our country is facing increasing threats and challenges to our national security and increasing threats to our social stability," Xi said.

The Chinese public must build a "wall of bronze and iron" to fight terrorism, and "make terrorists become like rats scurrying across a street, with everybody shouting 'beat them'," he said.

Xi called on officials to "properly resolve disputes affecting national unity and resolutely curb and combat hostile forces from outside and inside the country from using the ethnic issue to engage in separatist, infiltration and sabotage activities".

Xi did not refer to Tibetans or Uighurs, but his remarks reflect the rhetoric often used by party leaders when discussing ethnic unrest and underscore Beijing's anxiety about minority issues.

Human rights groups have said that Beijing tramples on the religious and cultural rights of Tibetans and Uighurs and enforces its rule with brutality. China says ethnic minorities enjoy broad freedoms.

Beijing has called the Dalai Lama, who fled to India after a failed uprising in 1959, a "wolf in sheep's clothing" who wants to establish an independent Tibet. The Dalai Lama says he wants autonomy for Tibet and denies advocating violence.

Security has been tightened in Xinjiang after a spate of deadly attacks, including an incident in the southwestern city of Kunming in March, in which at least 29 people were killed and 140 injured, blamed by Beijing on Uighur separatists.

Last October, a vehicle ploughed into tourists on Beijing's Tiananmen Square, killing the three people in the car and two bystanders. Authorities blamed the attack on rebels from East Turkestan.

Xi's administration has intensified a crackdown on dissent. Beijing sparked an outcry from Western nations in January when police detained Ilham Tohti, a professor who has championed the rights of Uighurs.

China minorities fearful after Xi's 'terror' speech | Asia-Pasific | Worldbulletin News

Targon said:

Not related to this issue but I have question to Chinese friends, is there a some kind of trend among Chinese teens to get nicknames from a language/culture they're interested in ? I came across to many Chinese students from Turkey who were putting Turkish names in front of their names in Facebook, checked further I saw its not just Turkish but for example Chinese studying in Russia puts Russian name, Spain puts Spanish name etc.

Click to expand...

as far as i know, they do that because foreigners may find it hard to remember/pronounce their Chinese names.