German Government To Cancel Saudi Tank Deal

Yzd Khalifa said:

I have to take a sharp disagreement with you on that.


I respect your opinion though.

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No please explain yourself as I want to learn from you. It is always nice to hear a coherent disagreement about something that might add to your knowledge.
Araz

Yzd Khalifa said:

It isn't worthy discussing. I mean of you look at it from a political perspective, they shouldn't have offered their stuff in the first place.

From an economic point of view, they wasted a lucrative deal.

At any rate, Germany has never been a real supplier of arms to KSA.

They can eat their tanks.

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Not only You having problems with Germany....
The Swedish Navy wants to order a new class of Submarines.
Submarines are traditionally built by the privately owned company "Kockums", which
was sold to Germany's Thyssen-Krupp.

The Swedish Navy wants a fixed price for the submarines and the Germans told us
we can get a fixed price for Thyssen designed submarines but not for a Kockums
designed submarine. They have also continously blocked Kockums from competing
on large submarine orders, and refused to sell Kockums.
Looks like they bought Kockums only to get rid of a competitor.

Finally the government asked SAAB to build the submarines instead, and they
have been hiring at the Kockums location.
This weekend, the Kockums facility was raided by the Government.
We want the quiet Stirling engines.
Luckily the IP rights of the new submarine is owned by the government, and not by Kockums.

Thyssen threw in the towel, and now agree to sell to SAAB..

Hazzy997 said:

I still don't get their reasoning to cancelling the deal? Is it really about Israel?

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Not neccessarily, KSA exports is restricted by Sweden as well.
Arms which can be used to repress the population is not allowed to KSA and a large list of other countries.
Anti-Tank missiles, which would be useable in a war against another country are allowed to KSA.
Certain political parties want to stop all arms exports.

I wouldn't say there is something wrong with Germany but some political parties.

We don't have any problems dealing with them. We just want to have a break, sparing us from their endless proposals.

A.P. Richelieu said:

Not only You having problems with Germany....
The Swedish Navy wants to order a new class of Submarines.
Submarines are traditionally built by the privately owned company "Kockums", which
was sold to Germany's Thyssen-Krupp.

The Swedish Navy wants a fixed price for the submarines and the Germans told us
we can get a fixed price for Thyssen designed submarines but not for a Kockums
designed submarine. They have also continously blocked Kockums from competing
on large submarine orders, and refused to sell Kockums.
Looks like they bought Kockums only to get rid of a competitor.

Finally the government asked SAAB to build the submarines instead, and they
have been hiring at the Kockums location.
This weekend, the Kockums facility was raided by the Government.
We want the quiet Stirling engines.
Luckily the IP rights of the new submarine is owned by the government, and not by Kockums.

Thyssen threw in the towel, and now agree to sell to SAAB..



Not neccessarily, KSA exports is restricted by Sweden as well.
Arms which can be used to repress the population is not allowed to KSA and a large list of other countries.
Anti-Tank missiles, which would be useable in a war against another country are allowed to KSA.
Certain political parties want to stop all arms exports.

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Not true either. Sweden never signed or offered something, then took it back.

There is a whole market out there. We bought some SAAB airplanes from Sweden, anti-tank missiles with a transfer of technology agreement.

Yzd Khalifa said:

Not true either. Sweden never signed or offered something, then took it back.

There is a whole market out there. We bought some SAAB airplanes from Sweden, anti-tank missiles with a transfer of technology agreement.

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I meant that restrictions are not neccessarily related to Israel.

There is an agreement in place between Sweden and KSA which was extended in 2010.
Initially, it was signed by the Social Democrats, and the Liberal party and Christian Democrats
which are part of the current government did not want to extend, but were in a minority.
A complaint was filed with the Constitutional committee, but analysis showed that EriEye and AT missiles
are OK to export. Sweden would not sell tanks to KSA. (Don't design them any longer though)

The ToT deal involved building a Weapons Factory, and the Swedish Government
did not want FOI (the part of government involved in the deal), to take a lead role.
FOI apparently formed a fake private company, and when this was revealed by the press,
the minister of defense was forced to resign.

Think that the weapons factory is now dead (in Sweden), but without violating any contracts.

A.P. Richelieu said:

Not neccessarily, KSA exports is restricted by Sweden as well.
Arms which can be used to repress the population is not allowed to KSA and a large list of other countries.

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I still don't understand the whole "Saudi Arabia will use their Leopard 2A6 tanks to repress the population!" as though using a multimillion dollar main battle tank against civilians is in any way economically feasible....I mean, we'd just use our old M60s and AMX30s for that kind of work if it EVER happened (which I doubt).

Anyway, we're cozying up to the French a lot now....any chance of a Leclerc buy?

burning_phoneix said:

I still don't understand the whole "Saudi Arabia will use their Leopard 2A6 tanks to repress the population!" as though using a multimillion dollar main battle tank against civilians is in any way economically feasible....I mean, we'd just use our old M60s and AMX30s for that kind of work if it EVER happened (which I doubt).

Anyway, we're cozying up to the French a lot now....any chance of a Leclerc buy?

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Just change the constitution to become a constitutional monarchy like Sweden and you can
have as many tanks as you want.
Maybe mistaken, but I think I saw someone saying the Leclerc production line is stopped.

I think the whole problem is with ToT, Germans know their technology is good and do not want to share it. They also have top secret technologies in most of their own weapons, so they come up with export versions and eventhough mostly without ToT either. But the world has changed and most serious buyers ask for ToT or won't buy, they will look for similar technologies somewhere else and most of the time, they can get it with ToT.
But Germany is very rich and can skip even the most lucrative deals, mostly with Muslim states.

What submarines or tanks have to do with superficial internal problems, or human rights, since the same Germans give and sell submarines to the apartheid like regime of USrael, So, where is this respect of human rights?evidently it is a double standard. And to be honest as always, I never thought of the germans to come so low, I had them in high regards before.

They accuse Arabs with irrationality while theirs is blatant.This Guy A.P.Richelieu in his post # 66 betrays the German and Swedish pattern of thought concerning Muslims and Arabs, by saying to a SA :
" Just change the constitution to become a constitutional monarchy like Sweden and you can
have as many tanks as you want."
This is called inference in internal affairs and looks more like belligerence.
KSA is the Muslim's holy land, no insurgency is allowed or expected there but from foreign hands.
Other Arab and Muslim countries have constitutional monarchies, so it is a question of a sensitive space.
In reality, we have nothing to learn regarding democracy from people to whom we've brought it to...
We need some technologies, that we can get in many places and improve on them which we are able to do. and next thing you'll know Arabs and Muslims will surpass the western world in technology and sciences like they did for a thousand years. Since history tends to repeat itself with lessons learned, next time they will be very careful in sharing their knowledge.

Turkish tank project trials are proceeding and It is being passed final phase. It is expected to finalize trials in 2015 and I expect to see a cooperation between Saudi Arabia and Turkey over Altay project.

You are such a loser Germany. I live in West and know the duplicity that West engages in dealing with 'human rights'.

cabatli_53 said:

Turkish tank project trials are proceeding and It is being passed final phase. It is expected to finalize trials in 2015 and I expect to see a cooperation between Saudi Arabia and Turkey over Altay project.

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I don't know if the recent efforts vis a vis Qatar has cooled relations with Turkey, as us and Turkey have different views regarding the Muslim Brotherhood.

Mosamania said:

I don't know if the recent efforts vis a vis Qatar has cooled relations with Turkey, as us and Turkey have different views regarding the Muslim Brotherhood.

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You should be concerned for getting Tanks and Altay and AL-KHALID 1 can be best option

Mosamania said:

I don't know if the recent efforts vis a vis Qatar has cooled relations with Turkey, as us and Turkey have different views regarding the Muslim Brotherhood.

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I think it's definitely the past.

Syria rebel training could start in early spring, U.S. says

Thomson Reuters
Posted: Jan 06, 2015 4:02 PM ET

The long-awaited coalition program to train the Syrian moderate opposition could begin by early spring, and officials are beginning to identify individual fighters who could participate, the Pentagon said Tuesday.

Navy Rear Adm. John Kirby, Pentagon press secretary, also said for the first time that the U.S. military is conducting several investigations into reported civilian casualties that may have occurred in the U.S.-led coalition airstrikes against Islamic State in Iraq and Syria militants. He said he had no additional information on the incidents, but military leaders said earlier that they were unaware of any civilian deaths resulting from the bombings.

The effort to train Syrian rebels is part of the overall campaign to defeat the ISIS militants who seized large swaths of Syria and Iraq. Kirby said that once the training program gets up and running it may require additional U.S. forces to assist with the instruction. He did not provide details on how many. Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia have agreed to provide training locations.

…

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Saudi hails Egypt-Qatar rapprochement (Al Arabiya News - Saturday, 20 December 2014)



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Mosamania said:

I don't know if the recent efforts vis a vis Qatar has cooled relations with Turkey, as us and Turkey have different views regarding the Muslim Brotherhood.

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I second that. There's a lot of potential between KSA and Turkey. However Erdo's staunch support to MB let alone who's right or wrong has broken it just as our relations with Israel. It just needs to take some time I think.

Germans make bug mistake and when usa sold abramsvto saudis than if usa dont concern about israeli security abd what type of human rights they talj they dont xare about human rights they make fun of peoples faiths and religion that dont come in human rights anyway it is not end of world one way or other saudis will get tanks and it is better leopard is best tank no doubt but in asian climate no one uses them now russia is big gainer

cabatli_53 said:

Turkish tank project trials are proceeding and It is being passed final phase. It is expected to finalize trials in 2015 and I expect to see a cooperation between Saudi Arabia and Turkey over Altay project.

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i also think its a nice tank for saudi arabien army.