How far ahead of India is China?

Shardul.....the lion said:

Is it that difficult to get?

You have less amount of money so you want to distribute the subsidized food to lowest strata of life. Hence decrease in poverty line means absolutely poor people will get the help from govt.
In India due to corruption you will see many people faking poverty certificates to get subsidized things. THis is what govt wants to avoid.

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Why handing out food? what about givng them education and teching them some skills? You know the proverb about giving a fish and teaching how to fish, right?

Götterdämmerung;4016637 said:

We started two years later than India with democracy and that after we were brainwashed with Nazi-ideology and bombed back to the stoneage in WWII. 75 % of my city was like the surface of the moon. And see where we are and where you are.



Have you ever read the works of Marx? I guess not, or else you wouldn't spew that much ingnorance.

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LOL - are you really comparing post-war Germany with India at independence? A highly industrialized nation with a highly literate population to an agrarian nation with a 12% literacy rate? Forget Marx, looks like you haven't read anything except Mein Kampf

Jackdaws said:

LOL - are you really comparing post-war Germany with India at independence? A highly industrialized nation with a highly literate population to an agrarian nation with a 12% literacy rate? Forget Marx, looks like you haven't read anything except Mein Kampf

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That Hitler accusation should get you banned.

The reason India will never catch up to us is due to their failed political system.

LOL @ Indians trying to put a number of years(10, 20 etc) that India is "behind" China.

It simply does not work that way.

If you look at the relative GDP position of India to the rest of the world, then India is around 20 years behind. This is a very simplistic measure as it assumes that India is progressing at the same rate relative to the rest of the world as China is.

The fact is that over the last decade per capita GDP growth in India was less than 6% a year and it was 9% a year in China. Even now with China having a major slowdown to around 7% GDP/capita a year growth rate, India seems to progressing even slower.

The two major differences between China and India are the lack of unity in India(many ethnic groups/languages) and the fact that Indian culture is so wildly different.

Skyman said:

Easily beaten?
That's what you thought in 1962 too, we all know what happened then

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Hello Kid, I am talking about our goverment, and you are talking about 1962???, that time There was an Idiot prime misnister because of whom the defeat happened.

So precisely speaking, if India need to match China, which you will agree if the terms are peaceful, then we need a better government.

Jackdaws said:

LOL - are you really comparing post-war Germany with India at independence? A highly industrialized nation with a highly literate population to an agrarian nation with a 12% literacy rate? Forget Marx, looks like you haven't read anything except Mein Kampf

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I see that you are running out of argument and have to resort to personal attack.

Now my second argument that would bring your "India is a democracy" argument to sweat even more. Before the founding of the Federal Republic of Germany, our gov. system had been authocratic during the Kaiser era, chaotic in the Weimar republic and dictatoric during the Nazi era and yet we managed to industrialised at high speed, literacy rate raised to pretty much 100 % and creativity reached a a new high very visibly in the art, architecture, music, literature and in sciences. How do you explain this?

Götterdämmerung;4018639 said:

I see that you are running out of argument and have to resort to personal attack.

Now my second argument that would bring your "India is a democracy" argument to sweat even more. Before the founding of the Federal Republic of Germany, our gov. system had been authocratic during the Kaiser era, chaotic in the Weimar republic and dictatoric during the Nazi era and yet we managed to industrialised at high speed, literacy rate raised to pretty much 100 % and creativity reached a a new high very visibly in the art, architecture, music, literature and in sciences. How do you explain this?

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I agree with you that your system of governance was not a democracy before 1919, but nevertheless it was not completely autocratic as well. the real power behind the Kaiser were his prime ministers like Bismarck. Besides this Germany had the full protection of NATO after the cold war and the prosperity which came with the formation of the EU. Besides this why are you ignoring great thinkers and leaders like Martin Luther, Leibniz, Gottenberg, Frederick and a lot of other guys who helped lead the Germans before modern Germany was created. India is gradually coming out of socialism and centuries of foreign rule and as the Indian electorate becomes wiser (which is clearly visible from all the election results and demonstrations in recent times), it will propel India into the high table

Götterdämmerung;4018639 said:

I see that you are running out of argument and have to resort to personal attack.

Now my second argument that would bring your "India is a democracy" argument to sweat even more. Before the founding of the Federal Republic of Germany, our gov. system had been authocratic during the Kaiser era, chaotic in the Weimar republic and dictatoric during the Nazi era and yet we managed to industrialised at high speed, literacy rate raised to pretty much 100 % and creativity reached a a new high very visibly in the art, architecture, music, literature and in sciences. How do you explain this?

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Well, I responded to a personal attack, did not initiate one. Perhaps you can't tell the difference between initiation and response.

Art, literature, music, architecture and the sciences have flourished in India since eons too. So what point are you trying to make? Creativity can't be stifled - it finds a way out. And Germany was highly industrialized and literate BEFORE the end of WW-2. A system of governance doesn't make an iota of a difference to a nation's creativity.

From the opening post:

"Now, here is some good news: the size of the Indian economy will cross the $2 trillion mark this year, just five years after it became a trillion dollar baby."

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I wonder how is it possible? India growth had to be around 20% annually?

Viet said:

From the opening post:

I wonder how is it possible? India growth had to be around 20% annually?

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Even your math appears just a tiny bit better than than cheerleading indians! or they are called "delusional" with a good reason

Timewarner said:

I agree with you that your system of governance was not a democracy before 1919, but nevertheless it was not completely autocratic as well. the real power behind the Kaiser were his prime ministers like Bismarck. Besides this Germany had the full protection of NATO after the cold war and the prosperity which came with the formation of the EU. Besides this why are you ignoring great thinkers and leaders like Martin Luther, Leibniz, Gottenberg, Frederick and a lot of other guys who helped lead the Germans before modern Germany was created. India is gradually coming out of socialism and centuries of foreign rule and as the Indian electorate becomes wiser (which is clearly visible from all the election results and demonstrations in recent times), it will propel India into the high table

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In fact, Germany was not a functioning democracy till the 1950s. The Weimar Republic was a democracy without democrats. The parliament was a fight club between reactionary monarchists and proto-fascist on the right side and the communists on the left side. It was utter chaos and paralysis, much like todays Indian parliament.

Do you know how Germany was during the era of Bismarck to make the claim that Germany was not autocratic? Do you know how many liberal and democratic intellectuals left Germany and found asylum in Paris during that time?

The great thinkers that you mentioned were able to survive due to the rivalries amongst the many principalities and city states but none of them were either liberal or democratic. So, my claim that great ideas and creativiy can flourish in a non-democratic society is valid.

The NATO was our protection during the cold war and not after, but we had and still have to pay a high price that we are until now not 100 % a souverein nation as long as foreign soldiers are still stationed here on our soil. Foreign soldiers that steal our technology and trade secrets.

double post

Jackdaws said:

Well, I responded to a personal attack, did not initiate one. Perhaps you can't tell the difference between initiation and response.

Art, literature, music, architecture and the sciences have flourished in India since eons too. So what point are you trying to make? Creativity can't be stifled - it finds a way out. And Germany was highly industrialized and literate BEFORE the end of WW-2. A system of governance doesn't make an iota of a difference to a nation's creativity.

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Mind to show me wehre I initiated a personal attack?

What is my point? Well, you guys have been spewing that since you are a democracy and China is not, India is more creative and what not.

And my second point is, that Germany like all other big developed countries became democratic after we got highly industrialised and our social indicators reached a high level to counter the Indian argument that since India is a democracy, its development is more sustainable, stable and natural than non-democratic China's path of development.

Götterdämmerung;4023068 said:

Mind to show me wehre I initiated a personal attack?

What is my point? Well, you guys have been spewing that since you are a democracy and China is not, India is more creative and what not.

And my second point is, that Germany like all other big developed countries became democratic after we got highly industrialised and our social indicators reached a high level to counter the Indian argument that since India is a democracy, its development is more sustainable, stable and natural than non-democratic China's path of development.

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I surely do not mind - Post #135 - "Have you ever read the works of Marx? I guess not, or else you wouldn't spew that much ingnorance"

Countries that became industrialized in the 19th and early part of the 20th century became highly industrialized by exploitation - irrespective of whether they were monarchy, a dictatorship or a democracy. The Americans became industrialized on the back of slavery, the Brits on the back of their colonies and indentured labor. Both of these were champions of democracy. So it wasn't exactly very rosy for the slaves in Alabama or the indentured workers in Suriname. China is continuing that same model by exploiting child labor and its own citizens and stifling their rights. These barbaric practices are completely out of sync with the prevalent ethos of the 21st century.

Jackdaws said:

I surely do not mind - Post #135 - "Have you ever read the works of Marx? I guess not, or else you wouldn't spew that much ingnorance"

Countries that became industrialized in the 19th and early part of the 20th century became highly industrialized by exploitation - irrespective of whether they were monarchy, a dictatorship or a democracy. The Americans became industrialized on the back of slavery, the Brits on the back of their colonies and indentured labor. Both of these were champions of democracy. So it wasn't exactly very rosy for the slaves in Alabama or the indentured workers in Suriname. China is continuing that same model by exploiting child labor and its own citizens and stifling their rights. These barbaric practices are completely out of sync with the prevalent ethos of the 21st century.

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Indian human rights are down right despicable. From the killings of Sikhs, the killings of Muslims and many other minorities. To say India is a democracy and have fee speech is laughable. India is run by a ruling monarchy where Nehru family members are hand picked to lead the country. How else can an Italian housewife become the most powerful person in India. Sikhs, Muslims and Tamils are crushed if they talk about independence from the thugs in New Delhi. So much for free speech.
India has no rule of law and a highly illiterate population. Add to this the multiple ethnicities and religions, you know why India has zero chance of catching upto China.

India overtaking China will forever remain a pipe dream of some jingoistic Indians.