pak-yes

"all i can say is that you people are even worse than Indians."

Then it is a difference in morals and ethics: you believe that people who exist under tyranny have the right to expect not to be disturbed when that tyranny seeks to grow and oppress others. That is the kind of complicity the West rejected after WWII, for mass-murder was the result.

If you believe Israel's actions constitute murder because innocents are killed when attackers employ them as human shields, why not hold the Pakistani Army to the same standard?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/16829-writings-ben-gurion-pakistan-4.html
http://solomon2.blogspot.com/2008/12/debunking-ben-gurion-on-pakistan.html

"You have no threat from Arab inspired Pakistan because at the moment they are busy killing their fellow Pakistan -" Have you considered that I have good wishes for Pakistanis so these motivate me as well?

"if Arabs have given us gift of terrorism you have also left no stone unturned to wipe Pakistan off the map." P-y (py = pak-yes, fib = lie), I think Israel either has nuclear weapons or can assemble them on short notice, and has had this ability for three decades or more. So if Israel wanted its enemies (including, you suppose, Pakistan) wiped out it could have done so long ago, and nobody would have stopped them. What Israel does not have is the motivation to do so. All this stuff about Israel being Pakistan's enemy because of something Israel did or intends to do is fluff. If Israel becomes Pakistan's enemy, it will only be because Pakistanis make it so.

"Ideology is one thing but justifying the blood of poor people who can't defend themselves -" As one German woman put it after WWII, the Nazis were out to conquer Europe and took Germans along for the ride. That didn't make it right. The Germans who opposed could scarcely do anything about it, under the Nazi leash. External force was needed for their liberation, and that involved many civilian casualties. Still, by allowing it to happen, or actively participating or benefiting thereby, the Germans too had a measure of responsibility for the terror the Nazis tried to impose upon the world. Today they accept this.

But expatriates and those not Germans could speak and oppose terror and tyranny. Just as you can, if you choose to do so.

"The Fact will remain that your state is imported...you people are doing same with Palestinians what other did with you...You Israeli's don't spare weak Palestinians..."

Haven't you learned, from everything in your life, from how you are treated by your superiors and government to how local issues are portrayed in the Pakistani media, or even at the mosque, how screwed up everything is? How what is reported and talked about isn't what the facts are that you can see with your own eyes? Do think that your perception of events, history, even right and wrong, of a land far away from you where you, shaped by all these factors which you know fib about your life at home, would be any more accurate? Why?

"It should be none of your concern what are we gaining or losing by siding with Arabs." One very good reason is that it inspires some Pakistanis to kill Americans, Jews, Israelis, and others. So it is a great concern.

"If Arabs have damaged us Zionists are no less."
Do you see Zionists roaming about Pakistan establishing terror camps, colonizing and forcibly marrying Pakistani girls, eviscerating free media and education, and thumbing their noses at your government?

"Israel made us enemy first.Your Prime Minister declared Pakistan as a threat immediately after Israel was established -" It's fib, P-Y. I quashed that back in 2008, and no one disputed it - though such lies keep circulating because few Pakistanis critically evaluate them. I don't think that even Pakistan's first foreign minister saw Israel as a threat: his reason for rejecting the Jewish state was that most of the population came from Europe, not Arab countries. That was before Muslim states expelled their Jewish populations; now it's about half and half, I guess.

"Our Image has been destroyed by Zionist Media." Fact is, Pakistan's current year-long anti-terror offensive, and its cooperation in the Times Square bomber case, has somewhat improved the GoP's image, though it has made Pakistan's existence and problems more visible to the American public.

Yet there is something else. When one embraces Zionism as a national home for the Jewish people, one is truly embracing justice. No matter how craven the Western media is, many, many peoples realize this. It is no surprise that people who reject the Jewish State also live under some of the most unjust, mis-managed, or conflicted regimes on the entire planet. For if you embrace one set of values, you also embrace the other.

"after all Dajjal has to come." As I understand it, the coming of Dajjal has a lot to do with corruption, little with Jews and nothing with Israel.

"Jews are like components of a diamond.They may have 1000 opinions but they are one." That is very beautiful and I hope you don't mind if I quote you.

"you say you are not an Israeli but how vigorously defend Israel." The existence of a Jewish National Home in Palestine is deeply rooted in Jews. It is not a new thing, but has stayed with us for 2,000 years, since the Roman expulsion of most of the Jewish population. It was promised by the British, by the Caliph, and by the League of Nations after WWI; its necessity recognized after WWII and again after de-Imperialization resulted in most Muslim-majority countries either expelling their Jews or making their life extremely difficult - Zia's bulldozing of Karachi's only synagogue in favor of building a shopping mall was Pakistan's last example of such oppression; if there are two hundred Jews left in Pakistan I'd be surprised.

"Solomon somebody posted once a thread providing information about Jewish positions in American Media." Lots of Jews in media. They don't spend their time advocating Zionism or Israel. I gave you the reasons. Do you think they should spend their time pushing Israel?

"You are making Pakistan Pay heavily for not accepting Israel and siding with Arabs -" Israel isn't making Pakistan pay. The Congress isn't making Pakistan pay - it does criticize Pakistan's choices of how it spends the money America provides. That's part of the price countries pay for being America's ally.

On the other hand, "siding with Arabs" brought you the Taliban, Arab colonies of Al-Qaeda, general disorder, and muddled thinking. Some Pakistanis I've known perceive this, but I think they feel they can do nothing without popular support.

"Besides all of our attempts to improve our image will be easily thwarted by Zionist Power." Remember that the majority of Zionists aren't Jews. Israel has widespread support internationally. Even the 20% or so of Arabs that favor Israel's existence as a Jewish State - in other words (are Zionists themselves) outnumber all the Jews in the world! Add to that the support of Christians and Muslims world-wide and you'll see that Pakistan's rejection of Israel sticks out like a sore thumb - odd, because it is only because Pakistanis choose to do so that they see Israel as an enemy, not because of anything Israel has done to Pakistan. (Have I not demonstrated to the satisfaction of Pakistani readers at PDF that the stories of Israeli leaders citing Pakistan as an enemy are lies?)

So Pakistan's problem isn't just how the world perceives Pakistan. It's the confused way Pakistan perceives the world. That's due in part to illiteracy, but much more because of the political choices its leaders have made, which have cascaded through the education system and even the mosque.

An Arab voice on PDF recently commented to an Israeli, "Do you honestly believe that Israel will survive in the Middle East in the long run?" Over the past 3,000 years Jews have been expelled from their National Home twice and nearly wiped out many times. (Egyptians, Babylonians, Romans, Nazis, Arabs...) Yet Israel has been re-established and thrives as a modern, open, diverse society that is the envy of many of its neighbors and wants to live in peace with those whose fathers sought to extinguish them - and in many cases, Israel has succeeded. Not just with its neighbors and former enemies, but with Arabs themselves - some 20% of Arabs who departed after 1948 returned in exchange for pledging their allegiance to the Jewish State.

What more do you need to see to perceive a modern miracle and the existence of G-d? And if you reject that, what does that mean for you and your country?

"One thing i like most about Zionists is their Unity." Never heard of the saying, "Two Jews, three opinions"?

"I don't think that your Propaganda establishment has ever been dissolved." I'm not an Israeli. And what you think doesn't indicate fact, does it, but what you want to believe.

"American Zionist Brethren with their Powerful Media Provides you the services free of cost." The U.S. media has been pro-Arab for decades now. The question isn't one of ownership or editorial control, but successful journalism. Western media becomes successful by issuing controversial stories and cultivating inside sources. Many more inside sources are Arab than Jewish, and issuing stories bashing Israel, with its claim (quite justified) of moral superiority, is much more controversial than bashing Arab states, who by common Western prejudice are accepted as greedy and cruel. It is, of course, much safer for reporters and editors not to say anything critical of Arabs or Muslims at all. The two just merge together nicely.

You know what that means, pak-yes? It means that it is very unlikely the Western media is going to do anything for Pakistan.

"This is the first thing i have heard from you that has come from your head" What?

"I would love to get paid for all my time spent but unfortunately our Government is not only poor and begs in front of the world but also lacks the vision and doesn't realize the power of Public Relations."
I have repeatedly urged on PDF for the GoP to fire its PR folks in D.C. and choose another outfit. (Of course, PR works best when the client cooperates with the PR firm's recommendations, so maybe the GoP doesn't want to do that.)

"On a Side may i ask how much you are payed by Mossad for Spreading lies on the Web?and does Mossad pay you in Dollars or Israeli Currency. "

Israel dissolved the Foreign Ministry's information arm - the outfit charged with propagating Israeli history and countering various lies - after the Oslo Accords, when it was thought that Arab acceptance of Israel was a done deal so that countering falsehoods and explaining things wasn't needed any more.

So no, I don't think Israel would pay you anything more than you're getting paid now.

What do you mean by this thread ???

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/57597-can-jf-17-like-silent-eagle.html


Is it for FC-20 or JF-17 ??

"When was the last time you took your history class."

Sophmore year of college. The professor/vice-chancellor simultaneously forbade me to major in history and offered me a position as his graduate student.

MUBARKAAAN.....

Senior member saab.

Hi young spirit,
Congrats on becoming a senior member. Good job, But its time now to improve the quality of your posts. I am not saying you are not good, but there is always a little room 4 improvement for everyone of us. Just try to post more objectively and seriously. God Bless.


Adios

Have you forgotten the carnage's happened in Rwp that you are talking in such a way about things happening in Lahore.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistans-war/50214-bomb-blast-moon-market-lahore-6.html#post723345

Try not to exaggerate things especially being a Pakistani.