Pakistan's Gwadar, Karachi to be linked with China's Kashgar: PM

[Argus Panoptes]

Please wake up to reality and try to understand the motivations behind everything. First of all, FYI, this is not Pakistan trying to sell this project to China. This is a request coming from China and China is the INITIATOR for this project. China wants to develop its Western most Province Xinjiang. China needs this shorter route which will save it 2 weeks of shipping time and additional cost of transportation to and from Middle East and Europe by using this Gwadar-Kashmor-Urumqi corridor. If you bother to look at a map, this will be obvious to you.

China has been developing Gwadar from self interest and not because it was in a generous mood. After Gwadar is operational, they would not only control the access to Persian Gulf, but through this Railroad and Highway link, it will use this corridor to increase its imports and exports for Xinjiang Province, to/from Middle East / Europe.

Okay, here is the map:


China-EastEurope by ArgusPanoptes007, on Flickr

China to Europe is best via Russia (and please do read up on the new track changing rapid train transport corridors being built) and not via Gawadar, and it is the same distance from Lanzhou to Kashgar as it is from Kashgar to Gawadar. Why would the Chinese need to go over the Karakorums and through unstable Pakistan to reach a small market such as the Middle East when they can go through their own country? And what are they going to export from Kashgar? And by the way, once oil is on a supertanker, it is easier to just take it all the way to China than to offload in Gawadar and then pump it or transport it across the Karakorums.

Gawadar is an important project for us, yes, but not for China, and certainly not for the outlandish claims we are making. No sir.

 

[Edevelop]

The Chinese gave up their opium addiction decades ago Sir, so I have no doubt that they will think such projects through and do only what serves their national interests. I see no way for them to fall for such flights of fantasy.

I hope you read the article.

It is in the interest of China to work on this project

"The project will route Chinese goods destined for the Middle East and other global destinations from Urumqi through Gwadar. It will save the Chinese half of their current voyage time and secure their oil supplies and commercial routes. The distance from Dubai to Khunjerab is 3,300 miles; the distance from Dubai to Shanghai via the Indian Ocean is about 9,000 miles."

 

[Pakistanisage]

Okay, here is the map:


China-EastEurope by ArgusPanoptes007, on Flickr

China to Europe is best via Russia (and please do read up on the new track changing rapid train transport corridors being built) and not via Gawadar, and it is the same distance from Lanzhou to Kashgar as it is from Kashgar to Gawadar. Why would the Chinese need to go over the Karakorums and through unstable Pakistan to reach a small market such as the Middle East when they can go through their own country? And what are they going to export from Kashgar? And by the way, once oil is on a supertanker, it is easier to just take it all the way to China than to offload in Gawadar and then pump it or transport it across the Karakorums.

Gawadar is an important project for us, yes, but not for China, and certainly not for the outlandish claims we are making. No sir.

You are also ignoring the Security aspect of those oil Shipments. Oil Imports from this region offloaded at the mouth of Strait of Hormuz and sent up through Pakistan via a pipeline will by pass the long route around India and through the narrow Malacca Straits. In case of a war with India, China would be much better off this more secure and faster route.

 

[Rank]

@Stealth, China and Saudi Arabia are trying to get close to each other. I think Pakistan should be the bridge on that effort.

As far as China and Saudia relationship keep in mind Saudia is like HQ of Americans in this region.

 

[Pakistanisage]

As far as China and Saudia relationship keep in mind Saudia is like HQ of Americans in this region.

Don't be naïve Son, Saudis hate American's guts. For Saudis it is a " Marriage of Convenience " because so far it is the best ball game in town. Heck, it is the only ballgame in Town.

However, as China gets stronger and Saudis have more reliable and compatible possibilities, that Saudi American Marriage of Convenience may result in a DIVORCE.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

You are also ignoring the Security aspect of those oil Shipments. Oil Imports from this region offloaded at the mouth of Strait of Hormuz and sent up through Pakistan via a pipeline will by pass the long route around India and through the narrow Malacca Straits. In case of a war with India, China would be much better off this more secure and faster route.

The Malacca Strait route is only for the Malaccamax size or below, as bigger super tankers already use other routes. And India can disrupt oil supplies through Pakistan just as easily in case of war, not to mention our own endemic security troubles in times of peace even.

A pipeline carrying oil up a mountain range in freezing temperatures poses its own technical challenges which are very costly to surmount, not to mention what could happen if an earthquake cause a spill into the catchment areas of our only major river.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

I hope you read the article.

It is in the interest of China to work on this project

"The project will route Chinese goods destined for the Middle East and other global destinations from Urumqi through Gwadar. It will save the Chinese half of their current voyage time and secure their oil supplies and commercial routes. The distance from Dubai to Khunjerab is 3,300 miles; the distance from Dubai to Shanghai via the Indian Ocean is about 9,000 miles."

Yes, I did read the article, and please read my previous reply below as well:

............
China to Europe is best via Russia (and please do read up on the new track changing rapid train transport corridors being built) and not via Gawadar, and it is the same distance from Lanzhou to Kashgar as it is from Kashgar to Gawadar. Why would the Chinese need to go over the Karakorums and through unstable Pakistan to reach a small market such as the Middle East when they can go through their own country? And what are they going to export from Kashgar? And by the way, once oil is on a supertanker, it is easier to just take it all the way to China than to offload in Gawadar and then pump it or transport it across the Karakorums.

Gawadar is an important project for us, yes, but not for China, and certainly not for the outlandish claims we are making. No sir.

 

[Leader]

this project was visioned by Musharraf, and if I remember correctly, a cold response from Chinese, musharraf was serious about it.

it seems both nawaz and the premier Li are just having a good table tea talk.. its good for health...

 

[Developereo]

Ah, but only if Mr Puri's the only one with interest in that. The Chinese will pull it off if they really want it.

The Chinese are entirely capable of solving the technical hurdles. The real hurdles won't be technical but operational, in terms of security.

There is every possibility that Pakistani leadership will sabotage the project when their orders come through.

 

[A.Rafay]

I wonder what will be the exact route to Kashgar!

^^^ tHIS route utilizes the already built Makran Coastal Highway and joins M-7 but there is another Motarway which is still U/C which joins Ratodero via Turbat.

 

[Jango]

Certainly a very outlandish claim, and as is the case with Bullet Train, I'll believe it when I see it.

Nawaz Sharif also mentioned the track passing through Torkham.

 

[Cyberian]

As far as China and Saudia relationship keep in mind Saudia is like HQ of Americans in this region.

Nahi yaar. Saudi Arabia has its own national interests.

 

[Developereo]

Don't forget Africa. That's also a huge market for China and a shortcut through Gwadar makes a lot of sense.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

Don't forget Africa. That's also a huge market for China and a shortcut through Gwadar makes a lot of sense.

Could you please explain what is this shortcut and how it makes sense?

A shorter transport time makes sense only for those types of products where time limits apply. What is produced (or will be) in the Kashgar-Urumqi region which needs to get to Africa or the Middle East so quickly that it cannot use the existing infrastructure already built by China? Finished goods and energy transport will continue along established corridors totally bypassing Pakistan.

The Chinese are entirely capable of solving the technical hurdles. The real hurdles won't be technical but operational, in terms of security.

There is every possibility that Pakistani leadership will sabotage the project when their orders come through.

Technical hurdles can be solved, but at what cost? And if that cost is so high that it does not make financial sense, do you really think the Chinese will spend all that money for the sake of friendship? I don't think so Sir.

Our leaders won't need to sabotage anything as the Chinese are likely going to decide it simply does not make sense for them to do this.

 

[Jango]

Could you please explain what is this shortcut and how it makes sense?

A shorter transport time makes sense only for those types of products where time limits apply. What is produced (or will be) in the Kashgar-Urumqi region which needs to get to Africa or the Middle East so quickly that it cannot use the existing infrastructure already built by China? Finished goods and energy transport will continue along established corridors totally bypassing Pakistan.

One thing I was discussing with a second hand car importer.

According to him, the cars he buys in Japan are first sent to Dubai, offloaded there and then sent to Pakistan. This takes a couple of weeks. If Gwadar is made and publicized, then the cars will not need to be offloaded at Dubai instead they will directly come to Pakistan from Japan...although the security issue in Balochistan makes the further transportation a problem.